Stop sec from wrongful repossession.

[Holyass]

 

As the title say, sometime sec will take stuff away from you even if you got it by legit means aka a full belt of tools of box of tool and them rare yellow gloves.

 

I suggestion adding a new rule to the Book of law for sec only.

 

Rule ## "Do not wrongful repossession items that the criminal did not steal/did get by legal means." for criminal that do not go into Permabrig.

 

 

and you know why I'm suggesting this? I been the victim of this and it made me sad, but happy after I got his buttocks demoted, but that was a pain and it piss off a lot of players in a legal battle. meep

 

[Shadeykins]

 

This is already covered by petty theft or abuse of confiscated equipment.

 

If you're hacking into an area however, sec is well within their rights to confiscate your tools/gloves.

 

[uliks]

Or "Do not wrongful blame someone for something! "

[FlattestGuitar]

 

As Shadey said, this is all covered by Space Law and Legal SOP.

 

If security loots your stuff that isn't strictly evidence or illegal for you to have, you have every right to follow up with IAAs or the Magistrate, or even ask us, the admins, for help.

 

[Doukan]

 

Something specific in space law that SAYS IN BIG LETTERS not to take anything not blatantly illegal/syndie tech/actually used to commit the crime would be nice.

 

Why? It's pretty much SoP to "confiscate" things that aren't technically illegal under normal circumstances like insulated gloves/toolbelts/flashes/knives/armour because sec knows how useful they are, it sucks it really does.

I mean yeah obviously if I'm hacking into places and putting holes someone's face requisition away but when it's a graffiti charge and you're stealing my shit 4noraison it just makes me want to antagonise you.

As Shadey said, this is all covered by Space Law and Legal SOP.

 

If security loots your stuff that isn't strictly evidence or illegal for you to have, you have every right to follow up with IAAs or the Magistrate, or even ask us, the admins, for help.

That never works ever unless it's an exceptionally slow round or there's an admin PC involved and even then the best you can hope for is a sorry from whoever did it whilst your stuff mysteriously finds it's way out the evidence locker.

 

[Holyass]

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Best post ever, and most true.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

We can add "only"s everywhere. It will still be an IC issue that needs to be taken up with an IAA/Rep/Magistrate.

[Holyass]

 

But most players don't know that they can do that so sec just gets away with it, I know only of it because i did my homework and try to a legal way to get my stuff back from that one round...

 

Most player don't even try to to fight sec in a legal battle because it too much work and most players are just lazy like that and so sec can get away with a lot of shit.... >.> maybe I will go fight the good fight and be a lawyer for the crew!

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

And again, if most players do not know about it, adding MORE regulations will not help it. This is very much a case of "This is already here", with a lot of people either not pursuing it, or not knowing about it.

 

Going on about how pursuing the issue would not solve it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

maybe I will go fight the good fight and be a lawyer for the crew!

 

^^ Basically this. Be the change you want to see.

 

[uliks]

 

>.> maybe I will go fight the good fight and be a lawyer for the crew!

 

He is being sarcastic because one lawyer with a cc or magistrate or representative (who show up barley every 10 rounds) can't do work.

 

 

When sever goes over 100 population we can not blame security for not having patience with a prisoners (in any kind of way) and one lawyer with magistrate just dont cut it.

 

 

there should be big security overseer department, some kind of "Ministry of law and justice". That will have power over everything, and also always willing to discuss about problematic issues.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

You have that already. They are called Internal Affairs Agents, Magistrate, NanoTrasen Representative and Captain. And Head of Security, for that matter.

 

Creating an entirely new department for the sake of overseeing a specific department will not really address the issues raised here.

 

[scrubmcnoob]

 

As said above, it's an IC issue and yes NT Rep/IAA/Magistrate are able to get their opinions in and deal out justice for space law even with 100 people.

Personally, as playing sec every round, I don't feel overwhelmed by large amounts of people.

 

[uliks]

 

Creating an entirely new department for the sake of overseeing a specific department will not really address the issues raised here.

 

In my opinion office's of Magistrate and Nanotress are not used very often or not situated very well.

 

But what if we make combination of this two with IA office together with security.

 

Department's who will unite to work fast, be always active, and same like HoP doing paper works on job change, security should always do short paper works for prisoner's and all unusual things on station but in logbook kind of way.

 

Ex: Time/event/location

 

12:15 explosions (science)

12:22 John Tider assault/theft (bar)

 

And in should all go to that big mix overseer department. That we have good control of critical points of station, behave of crew, and that we know what is going on that they know what is best thing to do next.

 

And with this,

 

-IA should have easy way to handle the complains.

-Magistrate and Nanotress should know on where to focus on, and sometimes they will find time for some small issue's like " Security in wrongful repossession ".

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

In my opinion office's of Magistrate and Nanotress are not used very often or not situated very well.

 

If such, that is entirely the fault of the players.

 

The Representative has full access to Command Comms and a direct hotline to Central Command.

 

The Magistrate is literally the highest authority on Space Law on the station. And can settle civil disputes too.

 

But what if we make combination of this two with IA office together with security.

 

We already do this. That is literally the entire point of the IAA office being that close to Security, and IA Agents having access to Security.

 

Department's who will unite to work fast, be always active, and same like HoP doing paper works on job change, security should always do short paper works for prisoner's and all unusual things on station but in logbook kind of way.

 

No.

 

Anyone who has had to play Security during even half-chaotic rounds can tell you why extensive paperwork on each prisoner is a ridiculously bad idea that helps literally no one. We have Comment Logs for a reason, noting down crimes using them takes about 5 seconds and does not tie people up in red tape.

 

And in should all go to that big mix overseer department. That we have good control of critical points of station, behave of crew, and that we know what is going on that they know what is best thing to do next.

 

Or... it should go to Security, who now know what happened and can brig that person for it.

 

And with this,

 

-IA should have easy way to handle the complains.

-Magistrate and Nanotress should know on where to focus on, and sometimes they will find time for some small issue's like " Security in wrongful repossession ".

 

They can... already do this. That is their entire point for existing.

 

You are suggesting adding new jobs and departments when we ALREADY have jobs specifically to do what you want these additions to do.

 

[Coldflame]

 

>commit various crimes using tools

>security take your tools so you can't

 

 

[Farya]

 

Greytide must suffer.

 

And we better make it easier for IAAs to do their job. For now only magistrate and NT rep are playable. Ordinary agents are usually ignored by everyone and their boss - magistrate is a rare visitor to station.

 

[uliks]

 

Greytide must suffer.

 

And we better make it easier for IAAs to do their job. For now only magistrate and NT rep are playable. Ordinary agents are usually ignored by everyone and their boss - magistrate is a rare visitor to station.

 

Tully, this right here is what we are trying to making solutions for, if you think that this is insignificant and pointless, and paradise law is perfect for you, then we got nothing to talk about anymore, just close the tread.

 

[Twinmold]

IAA is not hard to play as long as you aren't being a dick to security, honestly. You are really supposed to only get involved with Capital level offenses, even as a Magistrate. If someone in jail wishes to request a lawyer, it's really up to the IAA to be listening to radios for them to hear the request and move over on their own accord. They can ask what the charges are and the evidence, but being the accused and saying 'they didn't present evidence or charges or whatever' when they actually did just to try to get out of something is what's really annoying and makes the system so much harder than it needs to be. The IAA can talk to you while you are serving your actual sentence if it's a complaint on a valid cause, such as your noted topic, to try to get the items back, but you need to remember to keep a level-head and not being yelling like a mad man over the radios, or you will end up getting ignored.

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

As I noted, I am only saying that making up new jobs will not solve anything when they would function on the same premises as the jobs that already have issues with them.

 

If anything, then we should strive towards resolving those issues. But, as Twinmold gracefully put it, the sheer amount of pointless noise is enough to make even the most dedicated of IAAs want to never play again. You can only respond to so many greytiders screaming about "ARNAKGDASHDOASGD SHITCURITY" before you stop caring.

 

[Holyass]

>.> ok, i got the feeling that the thread have taken a turn in the road and went down a path that i did not see, And Yes i can see your point of not caring because of a screaming greytiles but i'm aiming for to players that want to really do a legal battle and what not and not screaming ice cream. :3

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

I understand your point. The problem lies, however, in the fact that regardless of how you go about this issue, unless you are suggestion mechanical changes to the game, then it is a problem that has to be solved ICly. And, because of that, it needs to be looked at in the context that it will occur in.

 

While I can sympathize with the point of the original post, I really do have to point out what I just did: it needs to be handled ICly. The only way to go about making sure this happens more often is to use the existing roles to the best of their ability. IAAs, for instance, are criminally under/misused, when they can very well wield enormous amounts of power.

 

I do not believe the solution to this problem lies in establishing even more chains of command, and as noted before, its already stated that confiscation is not a blanket response.

 

[Holyass]

fine, well we beating the horse to death, I request Lock and move of the thread.

[uliks]

 

IAAs, for instance, are criminally under/misused, when they can very well wield enormous amounts of power.

 

i would like to see tutorial how that power works on small graytide problems like this one.

 

[uliks]

IAAs, for instance, are criminally under/misused, when they can very well wield enormous amounts of power.

 

i would like to see tutorial how that power should work on small graytide problems like this one.

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Alright, let us assume that Officer A arrests Civilian B over Assault. In the process of checking their belongings, they confiscate a multitool for no reason other than the fact it was there, despite it not being used for the Assault. Afterwards, Civilian B starts complaining about this.

 

Step 1) IAA hears about this, kindly reminds the Officer in question how confiscation should work, and gets them to return the items;

 

Step 2) If Step 1 fails and the Officer refuses to listen, contact the Warden and tell them one of their Officers is confiscating equipment without justification;

 

Step 3) If Step 2 fails and the Warden refuses to listen, or there is no Warden, contact the Head of Security;

 

If all steps fail, you may just have a case of chronic Shitcurity, and no amount of sanity, arguments or reason will ever help you. Adminhelp to let the Staff know the entire Security department is breaking protocol and giving no shits about it.