[Rules Suggestion] Enforce Clone Memory Disorder

[Wheatley29]

For people who have been around awhile, we've all been victims to the situation where someone you killed is revived and they immediately scream over public comms "X is a traitor he killed me at Y with Z". Of course you can always hide the body better, however, that takes someone out the round if you had to kill them because they witnessed a murder and were not your original target. CMD, also known as Clone Memory Disorder means that you remember no events that caused your death when you are CLONED or REPAIRED (if IPC), this essentially means that if you meet these circumstances you are no longer permitted by the rules to immediately inform people that X is a traitor. This in turn gives more incentive for people who do have to kill others not to have to permanently take them out the round, as they know they are protected from the rules as long as they get cloned and not defibrillated. The only issue I could see with this would put further pressure on the administration team, however the overall benefits from this are incredibly good for the quality of life for antagonists. Please discuss below.

[Captain Cardgage]

 

Honestly I agree here with wheatley, whenever i try to go be a traitor,changeling,vampire. etc. and let's say i killed a scientist (As objective) no one nearby and only got my name because i forgot to remove it as i garroted him to death and hid his body in a obscure area and walled it off. Somehow he get's found again and cloned, in that brief moment all you can hear from them is:

 

"[insert one of my characters names] IS A [insert antag role] AND HAS A [insert said weapon] HE IS THE [Rank]."

 

 

It's rare to see anyone follow CMD and it's more often ignored than the virologist asking the CMO is it okay to release a virus.

So it really begins to restrict Antags trying to perform something if after the first person they kill and get's cloned starts yelling that they're an antag.

 

[Allfd]

 

Clone Memory Disorder is designed for high RP servers where taking anyone out of the round, even your target, is highly discouraged.

 

This seems more of a discussion about traitor balancing then RP.

 

[Wheatley29]

 

It's not so much about balancing traitor, we are a medium RP server, not a hippie-style no RP, we have standards.

 

Clone Memory Disorder would work perfectly fine on the server, and it would enhance the overall antagonist experience as you no longer have to debrain, space the body and burn the brain just to be sure you don't see ten minutes later *XYZ KILLED ME!!!* on public comms

 

[Allfd]

 

I guess where I am coming from is enhancing the antagonist experience seems to be like a balance thing unless it was somehow combined with antagonists goals not being to take people out of the round.

 

Paradise had clone memory disorder in the rules, but they were removed about halfway through 2014 with a discussion very much like this one.

 

[Wheatley29]

 

I guess where I am coming from is enhancing the antagonist experience seems to be like a balance thing unless it was somehow combined with antagonists goals not being to take people out of the round.

 

Paradise had clone memory disorder in the rules, but they were removed about halfway through 2014 with a discussion very much like this one.

I understand what you mean, and to a degree, it is a balance change, but also our status of midRP is.... slipping so to speak

It's more or less a QOL change so people can actually get back into the round more often after they get revived.

 

[Doukan]

 

Learn how to wear a gas mask and put your ID in your PDA, problem solved.

It's a shame people are the way they are but it's really easy to get around, just gotta git gud.

 

[Da Dman234]

I would love this so much, I always feel especially dickish aciding someone's brain just because I don't want them screaming about me later. All our current system encourages is permanently taking someone out of the round.

[Allfd]

I would also be all for this if it resulted in less people getting taken out of the round.

[Dumbdumn5]

 

I feel that this may not change much, unfortunately. I rarely actually see people call out an antag, and if they do, security already knows who they are. An autopsy or DNA scan on a corpse that's been whacked by an ungloved antag is bound to give away the murderer. Having had this for a year or, at the very least, a number of months before, it was removed, as people were reluctant to follow it, and it was somewhat difficult to enforce because after it's been said, the information is already out there, so we could punish the guy who originally gave you away, but we couldn't stop the sec swarm from chasing you down and giving you the chair.

 

That said, there need to be excuses in-game as to why CMD works or being repaired as something electronic without having taken brain damage is going to somehow directly influence what the character remembers. A common one is that the whole "you can't remember two minutes prior" but that would be taken literally and exploited. You could also say that "You can't remember the person who killed you because bluespace or something." but what if that person has been tortured for half of the round, and then finally gets killed, only to be found and revived. Should they be allowed to remember a full hour of the round prior, or can they not because that hour is when an antag was doing their business and it's against the server rules to give them up?

 

I have a feeling, if nothing else, this would make tensions run high in a bad way. People would know who antags were, but be able to do nothing about it as they saw somebody obviously fall into their next trap. It's like watching somebody eat food through a restaurant window but not having enough to go inside. It might breed antag laziness, as they can get sloppier with their kills, so long as the gloves are on, who cares if the body is hidden from sight? They can't remember you, and that just means you can kill them again in a similar fashion until you're tired of stabbing the same guy and you end up chucking him through an airlock. It might cause people to become indifferent or rather ignorant of antagonist activity, even if it were more obvious, as the valid hunting rule points people away from the direction of acting on suspicion, and this mandatory CMD rule would cause those revived to be aware but entirely helpless when it comes to dealing with antagonists.

 

This is more of a boost to antags in the metagame than the game itself, but I think the idea of more antagonist freedom and ability to do more, such as being allowed to sabotage the cloner, or attack primary hallways, or be a bit more active in preventing their objectives from being resurrected rather than stabbing and forgetting their recently deceased friend. Giving antagonists a bit more leeway to prevent the resurrection of their target is more likely to result in a similarly impactful outcome with the frequency at which I see antags called out by the cloned (Maybe 1-2 antags every 2-3 rounds.

 

Suffice it to say, for reasons above, I don't support this due to personal opinion and prior experience with enforcing this same rule.

(EDIT: Be aware that assassinate objectives aren't complete if a person isn't technically taken out of the round, and it usually resulted in more people ghosting and logging off due to CMD than would normally with the chance of being revived and remembering.)

 

[uliks]

 

just talking about Clone Memory Disorder is pointless. things like, cloning that take shorter then surgery operations is, being detective and taking autopsy is way to easy, chemistry is way to powered for medic and for antag, security don't have any time to do any kind of paperwork how much they are busy metapatroling around, captain can call the shuttle when ever he feel bored, IA/Magistrate/CC combo to help in accident and mistakes is dead system that I does not work at all, and everything that takes to much time makes people bored and anoyed. And this is just few things that gives you the feeling why is Clone Memory Disorder stupid idea.

 

This is full metapowered server, with zero RP, you cant achieve nothing here with RP,

 

Clown is only thing that is making some RP on this station.

 

[Rumiluntti]

 

If your victim gets cloned, you fucked up.

The assassinate objective fails if the nerd is cloned, if you had to murderize others to cover your sloppy failure of an act, you have already fucked up.

 

There is no need to bubblewrap it for shitty antags with forced RP, doubly so with this kind of forced RP where you must pretend to be retarded.

 

[SomeGuy9283]

 

[The]Clown is [the] only thing that is making some RP on this station.

...

 

I-...

 

...

 

No.

 

[uliks]

 

...

 

I-...

 

...

 

No.

 

 

(づ◔ ͜ʖ◔)づ

 

"uliks gives SomeGuy928 a warm embrace"

 

[Farya]

 

This is full metapowered server, with zero RP, you cant achieve nothing here with RP,

 

Clown is only thing that is making some RP on this station.

Its still RP server. RP is just not enforced here. People who want RP - would RP. People who dont want RP - would not RP while its not toxic for people around. Thats also why we have karma system. Its made to encourage good roleplay and overall positive behavior on server which leads to fun for everyone.

 

And most clowns I see are just annoying greytiders.

 

[Wheatley29]

 

If your victim gets cloned, you fucked up.

The assassinate objective fails if the nerd is cloned, if you had to murderize others to cover your sloppy failure of an act, you have already fucked up.

 

There is no need to bubblewrap it for shitty antags with forced RP, doubly so with this kind of forced RP where you must pretend to be retarded.

Sometimes murdering others is unavoidable in order to maintain your cover, and I would much rather be forced to play dumb and be able to rejoin the round. How many times have you yourself been taken out the round because you walked in on an antag murdering someone? Would you rather just play dumb about it and continue playing, it gives people a chance and reason to actually try and force an autopsy to find out how they died.

 

[Dumbdumn5]

 

The problem here is force."Force players to forget who killed them." "Force an autopsy to find out how you died." There's no mystery to be solved for the player, and therefore, nothing of intrigue to find out. It's something disagreeable and feels, well, forced. there's no rhyme or reason to having somebody do something that could take two seconds over the period of taking five minutes waiting for the detective to leave whatever case he's on, come over to the morgue, scan the corpse, and run things back through the system. While I do agree the detective needs some love, forced interactions aren't always the most fun for either side. I relish in players killing my character, it's something that adds tension to the round. The crew is being thinned out, an unknown or even known murderer is stalking the tunnels around science maintenance, and they're eliminating crew members who catch them doing their dirty work, and sec is low on grunts to send in to investigate. I find that more interesting than, "Who dun it?", and either having to go through the process of an autopsy by force of OOC rule or letting the case drop, again under lack of wanting to go through the procedure due to OOC rule.

 

Forcing players to play a certain way involving death and such takes away a bit of player agency, something that, if D&D shows through here via gamemastering, isn't something that should be done without a massively significant reason (i.e. excessive violence, slurs that affect people out of game, etc.). In this instance, I'd much prefer that the player be able to control how their character handles death rather than restrict it over the occasional antag outings. (Be aware, I'm saying occasional based on my own experience with being outed and seeing people being outed by the recently repaired or cloned, which usually isn't incredibly often.

 

[Holyass]

Well to this i say I can keep alive and see my attack face for atleast 2 mins then I will know his fast after death, but if he kills me before the 2 mins then i will rp and forget his face and name.

[GelatinousGlob]

If you think someone might get revived you should wear a mask and take off your ID before killing them.

[scrubmcnoob]

 

I rather have clone memory disorder be optional for those who wish to partake in it and other than that, keep it as you being able to remember the events up to your death.

 

Also as noted by Dumb, this would draw tension for those who know who the antag is but can't say anything because a rule is stopping them; this in turn would take freedom away from the player.

 

Finally, this just allows antags to be more sloppy and murder more as they please and not worry about victims being cloned. We need to keep a pressure on antags and for every person they take out of the round, it is another trail leading back to them.

 

[BiberDark]

 

Maybe we cant force it but we could send a message to the people.

 

How is a simply red pop-up that states "You have been cloned! You cant memorize anything about the last 10 minutes before you get killed ! These memories were part of the short-term memory and could not be restored due to the trauma.

 

Ding thats all. Could improve the play for people who actually like RP and the others will just ignore it as always. But for new players this is a guide to advance.

 

 

Raven out.

 

[Dumbdumn5]

That message is sorta doing the exact same thing as an admin pming them and telling them that, which is about as far into "forcing it" as we could go without applying bans for it, and to those ignoring it, that'd be incredibly annoying to deal with a chunk of text, and might make new players think that we enforce CMD in full.

[Farya]

 

If you think someone might get revived you should wear a mask and take off your ID before killing them.

Thats also why you dont wear your department clothes or even use gear from it for murder. Dress in clothes from vendor or get uniform of other department. People often leave their jumpsuits in changing room carelessly. Thats a good opportunity to get a disguise to fool security and your target.

 

[Wheatley29]

 

If you think someone might get revived you should wear a mask and take off your ID before killing them.

Thats also why you dont wear your department clothes or even use gear from it for murder. Dress in clothes from vendor or get uniform of other department. People often leave their jumpsuits in changing room carelessly. Thats a good opportunity to get a disguise to fool security and your target.

True yes,

However CMD will prevent those who are revived from literally the impossible, for example the pod pilot finding the brain you happened to throw out an airlock, and then being on the receiving end of "XYZ IS TRAITOR LYNCH PLS TY"

 

[Dumbdumn5]

In that circumstance, that's the luck of the game, if they get found in that way, they've got a right to come back from near certain permadeath and attempt to seek you out.