[Balance] Changeling Role

[renegadius]

 

In its current state, the Changeling role's first objective to take a certain amount of DNA from x amount of crew.

This means killing them via husking.

 

That is generally where people stop reading into the role, and go on their merry way killing and murderboning for the rest of the round.

At round end they will have failed the rest of their objectives - because heck, all they really did was spend the round killing crew.

In its current iteration, the Changeling role is a free license to indiscriminately kill crew, or grief the station by trans-stinging the crew into Vox.

 

Coupled with the fact that there is no way to tell who is a Changeling to start with (short of having been attacked by one yourself), Changeling rounds are not fun.

 

My suggestion to balance out the Changeling role, being that it is a murder role at its basis, is to simply strip away the rest of the objectives.

Nobody is doing them anyway, and as they have a free license to grief the rest of the crew at current, the role might as well face more towards that direction.

 

Give Changelings a bar which ticks down over time, and can only be refilled via husking.

If a Changeling fails to refill this bar to maintain their 'humanoid' form, have them devolve into a monstrous, obvious form as a huge red creature with blade arms.

Since the role revolves around murdering crew, it would serve much better if the Changelings had some ultimatum, or reason to be doing so.

 

My biggest complaint with the Changeling role as it currently stands is that they are night on, if not completely undetectable.

Their stings don't generate text, they don't have any detection method such as flashing eyes, burning in the chapel, or the injuries apparent to culties.

A Changeling is completely invisible while they freely murder whoever they please - simply because there is no way to detect them.

A handcuffed Changeling can even continue to freely use its proboscis and sting abilities on the officer who is dragging them.

 

Additionally, Changelings are exceptionally durable, and can clone themselves even if they do happen to take lethal damage.

 

In its current form, the Changeling role is an open invitation to grief, and there is next to nothing the rest of the crew can do except wait for the shuttle.

To summarize my suggestion, and the source of my salt, if Changelings are going to continue to be played as such, they could use a lot of tweaking to be geared more towards the murderboning role they currently are being used to play in the round rotation if Changelings a.) had some reason beyond objective 1 to be killing all of the people that they are, b.) were held accountable for excessive crew killing beyond objective 1, and c.) had some form of detection available to the security staff who have to deal with all of their nonsense, including the ability to see the proboscis text that would make the role more challenging for the murderboners who are currently giving it a bad name.

 

It's just not fun at all to deal with for new players, or experienced SS13 players.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Changelings seems to suffer from the same problem as vampires. They're rather shallow at their core and the only real interaction they have with the rest of the station is silently picking off assistants in maintenance without much effort.

 

We had already talked about this a few times, albeit with regards to vampires, not changelings, but a timer that motivates the antag to do something is a great idea, in my opinion.

 

It would of course need to be fleshed out more, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

 

[renegadius]

 

A Changeling that HAS to husk crew, literally for their own survival, is a much different antag that one that simply freely chooses, and has no consequences, for doing so. In its current state, a Changeling is simply pushing a murder button to receive bacon, and points towards making it even easier to murder crew.

 

If anyone suspects a Vampire, however, they'll just splash them with Holy Water, or cuff them and take them to the Chapel due to crew getting bitten.

If crew start showing up husked, or any of the other Changeling trans-sting shenanigans, you're still S-O-L as a crew in getting to the bottom of things.

 

A timer where the Changeling's DNA bar ticks down, becomes a limiting factor for a very robust antag.

Them losing their exceptional stealth factors, evolved abilities, or reverting to a red monstrous state once it reaches 0 becomes a great balancing factor against them holding the crew hostage simply by being undetectable in the current situation.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

In its current state, the Changeling role's first objective to take a certain amount of DNA from x amount of crew.

This means killing them via husking.

 

This is blatantly false, and was one of the things we deliberately changed to discourage such behavior.

 

Changelings only have to kill, at most, two targets; with it statistically favoring only a single target. The absorb objectives can be accomplished via DNA extract sting.

 

and points towards making it even easier to murder crew.

 

We're not Bay/Polaris; this is blatantly False. The "absorb people for more points and thus more abilities" style changeling was killed off in early 2015; the only unlockable ability you can get now is the "spread infestation" ability that spawns spiderlings. Getting more genomes only allows you to re-attune your fixed points.

 

 

As for detection? We had that, it was awful; it literally led to Code Red and security raiding every department and lining up every single staff member (regardless of rank) against the wall and forcibly testing them. No, I'm not being melodramatic or kididng; this is exactly what happened on multiple rounds.

 

[renegadius]

 

Changelings only have to kill, at most, two targets; with it statistically favoring only a single target. The absorb objectives can be accomplished via DNA extract sting.

We're not Bay/Polaris; this is blatantly False. The "absorb people for more points and thus more abilities" style changeling was killed off in early 2015; the only unlockable ability you can get now is the "spread infestation" ability that spawns spiderlings. Getting more genomes only allows you to re-attune your fixed points.

 

I was specifically told by Kluys [Name?], the admin online at the time, that this was not the case, and hence the reason they were allowing the Changeling to kill as many people as they did - one changeling specifically killed 10 people, and spent the round sitting the bar, or sitting in cargo after.

 

The admin's wording was that the Changeling was simply following their objective, and husking people to get powers.

They also specifically clarified to me that the DNA sting does not do this function.

 

In regards to further balancing the role, I would suggest changing the vague, open target DNA to obtaining the DNA of the Heads of Staff.

The secondary objective of the Changeling could then be simply to escape the station alive.

It would produce a lot less collateral and murderboning, along with making the role much more challenging rather than an open season on civilians.

 

[Da Dman234]

 

As for detection? We had that, it was awful; it literally led to Code Red and security raiding every department and lining up every single staff member (regardless of rank) against the wall and forcibly testing them. No, I'm not being melodramatic or kididng; this is exactly what happened on multiple rounds.

 

Can confirm, happened to me multiple times way back when. It's exactly what you see with current day vampires. Security checks EVERYONE once one of them is identified, and they rightly should when presented with the option. In reality there's no reason not to, because a quick drag through the chapel or a blood test doesn't hurt anyone but antags.

 

[Rurik]

You make it sound like it is easy, that everyone can do it, to be a changeling and murder 10+ people. I can speak from personal experience, that is completely not true. If you are a good at being a changeling, I am sure you can work wonders. Adding a timer to make changelings have a real reason to go full on murderbone and taking away the rest of the objectives seems like a pretty terrible idea to me. Changelings having the option to husk two crew and go after other objectives or killing ten people seems like a good choice to have to me. Why force them to murderbone? I see no reason to restrict their options

[Coldflame]

 

i've been told by admins killing people for absorbs is completely valid, though that might not be official policy (?)

 

lings should either be clearly defined to be a traitor style 'do your objectives' or a wizard style 'do whatever' antag, they're at an awkward point in the middle right now

 

[renegadius]

 

Huh. I should clarify that my position seems to be based on a misunderstanding of the Changeling role as it is being handled and ruled right now.

If the role is in fact NOT a plain Murder role, which was my understanding, given that it is the only way I see it being handled, then it is my mistake for assuming that the role needed to be adjusted.

 

Speaking objectively, the role is set up to be a stealth antagonist, gathering a very small amount of DNA, as well as obtaining an item and assassinating a single target - from my own single experience as a Changeling, as well as by my reading of the changeling wiki, this is what you are expected to do.

 

HOWEVER, where my experience and understanding differ, is any time I come into a Changeling round where the lings are running amok, and, when asked, the Admin online at the time is allowing it to persist, as they respond to a-helps to tell me that the Changelings are doing nothing wrong by murderboning the civilians that they get their hands on while ignoring their objectives.

 

My understanding was that it was a stealth role much like the traitor, but with abilities rather than syndicate tech.

This is not how the Administrators in the game are handling the Changelings though, and not how people are playing Changelings.

 

[Twinmold]

 

Trying to pair traitors and changelings as 'the effective same antag, just with different support' is wrong. Traitors ARE supposed to be, for most cases, stealth. While changelings SHOULD be stealthy, they are not limited the same way as the very nature of a changeling is to get as much DNA as possible, up to and including killing other changelings for THEIR DNA sample packs (after all, you get all the DNA they took if you take theirs, if I remember correctly, via the husking ability). They are able to get that DNA very simply from the DNA sting, but saying they are limited to only the bare minimum takes out half of the point of what changelings are supposed to be doing.

 

It's actually relatively easy to find a changeling, especially if they aren't a 'good' changeling, like your example. Prints are, after all, left on husked bodies if I do recall, and if they fail to hide those prints/change their own identity, and security/the detective specifically is keen on tracking down and plotting out the traces, they can actually pinpoint a changeling from a group of people. Blood on the victim, such as on their weapons or other defensive items, can also lead to the identity of the changeling when they were attacked, which does give the detective a lead. A good detective, with enough thought and effort, can track down changelings. Normally they just have to prove the perp did it. With changelings, they need to do a lot of investigating, and are your best weapon tracking them down. That is presuming the changeling is being very careful about it. And if the changeling is being too 'active', they'll likely get caught before the detective finishes their investigation.

 

This 'changelings can't be found out' is kind of bad. They can be found out much like a traitor can, but are just a bit harder to keep full track of, due to shape-shifting. The difference is proving they are in fact a changeling, which the Detective would have to have a pretty conclusive report to verify or there be witnesses to them doing changeling things.

 

Changelings are usually given extra sway as husking IS a valid tactic for them, and they could even use the form in question to blend into a situation that may prove favorable for them. I merely wish I saw more changelings actually using the forms and showing they deserve to be going to that extent. The issue is how hard it is to 'act' like certain people, especially if you've never interacted with them before. You need to study up on them first.

 

P.S. There is a way to find out if someone IS a changeling outside of what I noted., but it's a trade secret. You'll have to find out yourself what it is yourself.

 

[tristan1333]

I like changelings because they are really free to go about what they do. A changeling can go through maint killing people one by one and it's A ok, or they can just stealth sting people for DNA. They have access to some pretty good gimmick stuff too. Compared to traitors, (Which I think is a better mode) where traitors are fairly leashed to what they do. I think how changeling currently plays would be nice to be taken to traitor mode.