Diversifying the races

[Farya]

 

Making the raсed standart removes the very reason different raсes exist. Whats sense in being lizard when it have almost no differenсes from ordinary human? Only humans are supposed to be a standart "Jaсk of all trades and master of none" raсe whiсh have no signifiсant bonuses nor signifiсant debuffs whiсh allows them to be on average level in every task they would like to do. While other raсes are supposed to be more speсialized in that matter. It would be neat if every raсe would have its own "hat" for something. Like being superior at jobs in one department while medioсre in enother. So only very few skilled members of any speсies would be seen outside of their superior department. Humans will be average at everything and will be everywhere.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats

 

[Toroic]

 

Making the raсed standart removes the very reason different raсes exist. Whats sense in being lizard when it have almost no differenсes from ordinary human? Only humans are supposed to be a standart "Jaсk of all trades and master of none" raсe whiсh have no signifiсant bonuses nor signifiсant debuffs whiсh allows them to be on average level in every task they would like to do. While other raсes are supposed to be more speсialized in that matter. It would be neat if every raсe would have its own "hat" for something. Like being superior at jobs in one department while medioсre in enother. So only very few skilled members of any speсies would be seen outside of their superior department. Humans will be average at everything and will be everywhere.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats

 

That's a good design goal. From what I've read of the code, when it comes to the races either the coders are afraid to add anything that innovates, or they don't have a good understanding of mechanics and player psychology.

 

Kidan and grey both need major work. Kidan need something appealing, which they currently lack in exchange for the massive downside that is no eyewear. Allowing single click aggressive grabs would be appropiate in power level for that much of a tradeoff. Their armor is bad.

 

Grey could be awesome with some short range (3 tile) telepathy. They already have some hefty downsides.

 

[BiberDark]

 

HOw about dionas dont need food , but a lot of water on a regular base (it is a plant), like 30 units every 30 minutes. And make them bit faster or readd the drugs so you can move faster with them.

 

PS : I like the concept of the ectoplasma people. Can they phase through walls ? Maybe a chaplain can seal walls with holy wate or sigils to block a certain area, so the cant pass.

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Guest

[Holyass]

 

Biberdark, that like saying that human have to sleep to each 30 minutes for no reason at all.

 

Can we just leave the race diona alone, and that there no such thing as needing water to live in the ss13, if there was then all the races have to start drinking water beside the slimes and then you added another road block for the coders that want to add in a new race to make it drink water or something less and then it just be more a pain then anything.

 

In short drinking to live was never really added, only the food side of stuff.

 

Ps. And that i can see just players just stealing the IV Drips stands from medbay and have it give water to them so they don't have to worry about it, leaving medbay in a state where it cant give blood...

 

[Purpose2]

I think the drinking of water as nutrition does kinda make sense for DIonae.... and would give more reason that the water cooler in medbay... and boxes of paper cups exist etc...

[Fox McCloud]

 

This is of course assuming that this isn't already the case

 

That's already the case =p

 

[Holyass]

 

I think the drinking of water as nutrition does kinda make sense for DIonae.... and would give more reason that the water cooler in medbay... and boxes of paper cups exist etc...

 

but the diona feed on radiation, largely solar radiation for nutrition it is in the code and lore, so there no need to change that.

 

[BiberDark]

And how should they eat radiation at the station? Jumping in the supermater chamber ? What is the problem to change it to water and healing to solar radiation.

[Holyass]

 

And how should they eat radiation at the station? Jumping in the supermater chamber ? What is the problem to change it to water and healing to solar radiation.

 

 

Dude, you need to read more... there many types of radiation.

 

Alpha Radiation

 

Beta Radiation

 

Gamma and X Radiation

 

and solar radiation is radiant energy emitted by the sun or a light source, particularly electromagnetic energy.

 

and plants on earth need solar radiation to grow and to help make food, It like saying here you can have B but cant have A even tho You need both B and A to live.

 

Or you can say that this thing need A food type but you give it C type liquid... you can guess that it won't live long...

 

 

But in short, I think you need to read more books, and get a bigger database of knowledge, while you ruminate on this, Let me illuminate the possibilities.

 

[BiberDark]

 

Dude, this is a game and not the real world and second they are in a big massiv spacestation with multiple layers of steel. So α and β-radiation cant pass the station, because there penetrating ability is way to weak. α cant even pass human skin, β gives you bad sunburn, but a 3 mm thick aluminum sheet absorbs all of it. ​ɣ-radiation is better but the whole station would die if it not was shielded against it. See ISS or any other modern spacecraft or the protection in spacesuits.

The earth is shielded by his magnetic field and his atmosphere. Atmospheric damping occurs, without it the earth would be a dead stonerock, because the cosmic radiation ( you called it sun radiation )would destroy every dna string that would see the light of the sun. No evolution on land, maybe in the deep oceans, maybe. But nothing higher then some worms, maybe a fish. Definatly nothing with some form of hands and a higher intelect.

Other wavelenghts for example are, the visible light , microwaves and radio. Plants need sunlight especially long wave red and shortwave blue for photosynthesis ( aka visibible light and infrared. And what they need too ? Dihydrogenmonoxid in short H20. You need 6 Co2 and 6 H20 to create C6 H12 O6 + 6 O2. So no water no life.

One point if you are interested you can check multispectral images in arcmap or gqis ( geoinformationsystems) at channel combination 4-3-2 , there you can see the vitality of plants. Look in a desert and you will see a difference. Less water less vitality (ok winter is not red too - obvious it is to cold )

Before you blame people here they should read more books, you should hold back yourselfe.

 

Second i currently making my master degree of science in geography, moron.

 

PS: Xray is only a common name for "Röntgenstrahlung" ( discovered by Wilhelm Conrad Röntgen ), simplified in english speaking countries to x-ray. Gamma and x-ray radiation is overlaping in a wide range. At the same energy level it is equivalent to ɣ-radiation only difference is the source of the radiation.​ɣ-radiation is produced in the atomcores. Röntgen or xray in high-energy electron processes. Located between ultraviolett and gamma radiation.They are both a Ionizing radiation.

PS II : So dionas have to make a spacewalk everytimes they got hungry ? Did they eat there ice meteors/ comets ?

 

 

 

 

[Holyass]

dude, No need to go Full nerd on us, it's just a game and I'm only using basic terms for noobs to understand, Yes i can see your point that plants need water but that just will be more a debuff then anything, How will you offset the debuff?

[fludd12]

 

Purpose, I submitted a few suggested changes, hope you like them.

 

Holyass, please try to avoid instantly shutting down people who contribute balance changing ideas to Dionae. People are allowed to suggest changes to races, and not all debuffs need a buff - we are, after all, a roleplay server, no matter what the de-facto situation is at the moment.

 

[Purpose2]

 

Thanks Fludd, We're coming up on 100 total submissions... which is significant! Once we hit that number, I'm going to go do a bunch of validation on the data, and come up with a 'picture' of what might be a good combination of tweaks.

 

There are some quite interesting suggestions, espectially some that when you look at the bigger picture of the other changes, have the potential to be a bit more interesting and impactful.

 

I'd like to echo Fludd's point, lets not debate and discuss here, there have been a massive slowdown in suggestions since shutting down of ideas started really kicking off... and really I want to get everyones thoughts and creative input!

 

[dadols]

 

We're coming up on 100 total submissions,

There are some quite interesting suggestions, espectially some that when you look at the bigger picture of the other changes, have the potential to be a bit more interesting and impactful.

 

May you make these suggestions "public"?

So Everyone can join and give his own meaningfull opinion about a suggestion/idea and by doing so Improving it or rejecting it.

by doing so you can ease your work and extract some really Smart & Interesting Ideas/Suggestion,

 

I mean,

 

It`s best to ask the Community and work with them, to create an enviroment comfy for them and for the new ones.

 

[Purpose2]

That is exactly the plan. Anonymised though

[Ziiro]

 

So one of my suggestions when I did the survery when it first came out was one of the problems with IPCs: EMP.

 

Since then, I've played a lot more IPC. It's all I play! And nearly every single player-caused death in the last week for me has been to EMPs. (so please take this with a pinch of my salt) I can understand a balancing weakness for the IPCs: They have strengths in that they don't need food (Sidenote, Permabrig has no APCs. Permabrigged IPCs die a slow death) and that they are able to repair themselves and not have to deal with viruses/biological contaminants. Sure, you can get your limb cut off/punched off in like two swings, but I can take that. However being literally one shot by a 2TC item that nobody can detect, instantly, with no counter, is a bit much.

 

Farya suggested in the chat, and I somewhat agree: It needs to be something else more interesting. Disable all the limbs, do the thing where they move at random and slur their speech. Maybe copy the effects of when an IPC is affected by heavy surge withdrawl. (sparking and falling down constantly, stuttering/brain damage. Still a relatively easy kill, but not a free one.) but instant death just feels really shitty. Hell, it'd still probably be an easy kill if you EMP them, too. Their headset is still disabled, they'd be in a super vulnerable state.

 

Sidenote: I hear that IPCs used to be emag-able? Is that correct? Was it a permanent effect or something like the Chaplain staff? I think that this would be an interesting addition to the race - they a have lesser chance of getting most antag roles due to not being organic (No vamp, Cling), and those roles actively avoid or just kill them because they can't do anything WITH them. Giving them more interaction might be useful.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Emagging IPCs on Bay gave them a law to obey the emagger, at one point.

I've made a few suggestions to add that in but nobody wanted to.

 

[Dumbdumn5]

 

Considering the low cost and high power of the emag, not sure it'd be a good idea to, at least in this state, have the ability to control the entirety of the synthetic crew for the cost of one item. Getting the first few is hard, but get enough 'thralls' and you'll end up getting most of the rest.

 

As it stands, I like where IPCs are, as they currently seem pretty well diversified from the human races with nothing too strong that isn't offset by something equivalent in weakness or sometimes even greater in the case of the EMP. EMPs, being kept in place as a serious side affect (Be it death or major discombobulation), can now be completely mind controlled at the cost of 8 TCs, still 2 telecrystals lower than the standard mindslave implant, and that's only if the traitor uses the EMP flashlight, which they could negate with the instant stuns we have and mindslave somebody for the price of 6 TCs, enough to get 2 sets of noslips and military belts, or an ecrossbow, or a revolver, or a chainsaw, etc.

 

This isn't to say that no change can be made to IPCs, just that, in their current state, they seem to be the most diverse of the bunch considering how much snowflake coding goes into them. Adding more interactions between IPCs and other traitors is good, though the suggested idea of adding emaggable mindslave-y interaction is sort of odd considering mindslave implants comparatively cost an arm and a leg, and are not reusable (You get a box filled with a single implanter already loaded with one mindslave plant for 10TC, non-reusable compared to the 6 TC reusable emag.).

 

I want to write more, but due to school, can't do so, I'll try to cover arguments about the diona more particularly due to how relevant they seem to discussion, though I'll probably spend some time scrolling through the other pages to see what else has some hubbub about it.

 

[Holyass]

i think that the ipc need a small buff for emp so it not a one shot kill. i think that need two emp to kill a ipc

[FlattestGuitar]

merge pls

[Ziiro]

 

Again, I think that IPC is mostly in a very solid place. They're very unique, and fairly balanced. Mostly. EMP is the only thing that feels out of whack. Pressure weakness and the general fragility I feel are appropriate. I find it amusing how if you, as an IPC, get in a fist fight with a diona, you will get your limbs punched off. They are synthetic beings, and they feel appropriately alien in anatomy and function. This has its ups and downs: People have knocked my head off and think they won a fight, but on the other side of the coin I've had roboticists struggle to figure out how to fix me. (We need a book explaining IPC repair!)

 

Concept:

 

EMPing an IPC acts more like a sleepy pen: Disabling them for 3 minutes, instantly. When they recover, their battery is nearly drained (<10%), making them move very slowly until recharged. Still very vulnerable. Not to mention you could still space them or just kill them in the amount of time they're under. Or just table them and remove the posibrain! It's super simple. (A sleepy pen is an 8 TC item. If you can do the same to an IPC for 2 TC, I feel like that's still a good advantage to exploit)

 

Additionally, while an IPC is EMP'd and rebooting, they can be slapped with an emag to mind control them for 15 minutes upon waking up. After the 15 minutes is up, their 'backup memory' is restored, and they don't remember getting EMP'd. Mechanically, limit this to one IPC at a time. If the same traitor emags another IPC, the first thrall is lost instantly. (Not sure how feasible this all is, in coding.)

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Everything up to the last part about only having one sounds pretty simple. Logically.

Codewise, everything is perfectly feasible.

But why would the first subvert suddenly not be subverted if another one was emagged? Honestly I'd just let it be infinite, it only lasts fifteen minutes.

Perhaps add another part to it, a quick surgery before emagging them, so they don't have all the time in the world.

 

[Ziiro]

 

With regards to the surgery, this would be logical:

 

Screwdriver chest, Internal component manipulation, screwdriver, crowbar to open the panel, then slap with the emag. This can be done within the described 3 minute window, but not as easily as just slapping them with it.

 

And as far as more then one? Eh. I've had time to chew on it, and I just don't know. I guess if the surgery was involved, that's a decent amount of TC/Work to get 15 minutes of time out of someone, so sure, multiple could work.

 

[dadols]

 

Lot o` stuff

 

I mean, I feel like that 2x burn/brute damage is most of the times too much.

 

The Burn/Brute 2x damage, is just too much... We`re in 2560 and IPCs, how can it be possible that they`re so weak compared to other races.

 

Pros/Cons

 

+You Don`t to breath.

+You don`t need welding protection.

+You can heal yourself pretty easily & get revived.

+You can`t get poisoned and neither get sick.

+Lot o` fluffy stuff.

 

-You take 2x Brute damage.

-You take 2x Burn damage.

-You get "dismembered" very easily.

-You can`t use beneficial chems.

-You can`t use beneficial genes.

-You can`t use beneficial diseases.

-EMP equals Insta-Death.

-Lot Weaker than other races.

-Costs 15KP.

-Can`t get cloned.

 

From my point of view, that`s not such a balanced race compared to other races.

IPCs are obviously made out of paper.

 

[Farya]

I think ipcs should actually be MORE hardy then organics. And emps should stun them for long similar to borgs. And damage internal parts which ipcs should have more. Not just brain and cell but something else. And that parts when damaged would debuff ipc in different ways similar to borg with damaged modules. So while ipcs can withstand more damage before breaking and can repair some damage with ease, they would still need robotics help when damaged seriously. Welder spam would not be enough.