Improving Jobs: Cargo Tech/Quartermaster

[Keroman]

 

EDIT - I've decided to include the Quartermaster job to this thread since they function essentially the same as a Cargo Tech but with Mining access. Miners will be covered in a thread of their own.

 

There's been some talk among the staff about what we can do to make the game more fun for people and one of the things we seem to agree on is that some jobs just... aren't fun to play. I'd like to take some time to go down the list of jobs and get suggestions from you, the players, about what changes could potentially make jobs better or more interesting. I'll compile the ideas that show promise (i.e. support from multiple people) and we'll discuss them among staff to see what we think would work out well.

 

Before we begin I want to stress that posting an idea in this thread in no way guarantees that it will be added to the game. I don't want that to discourage you, however! If you've got an idea that you think would be fun, please, please post and we'll discuss it!

 

Our first job is one of the most basic jobs on the station:

Cargo Technician

 

Consider the following questions when posting your ideas:

- What are the responsibilities of the job?

- What capabilities do they already have? (i.e. access, equipment available, etc.)

- Potential for Antagonists

- How much does this job affect the round? (i.e. is the station crippled without it or do people barely notice when it's unmanned?)

 

Note: In 1 week (or when the thread has died out) we'll move on to the next job. Don't be afraid to suggest what job the next thread should focus on!

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Guest

[NethIafin]

 

Khem... in my idea about second station (yes, I won't get over it yet), I had an idea, that Cyberiad's Cargo tech should also trasport goods to second station.

 

So maybe in our current version, allow cargo to be not only the point of cargo package receival, but also a stop point. Have multiple shuttles come and go below cargo (so they don't interfere with main shuttle from CC), add a bunch of destinations, and then have them delivered to cyberiad.

 

This way players (CT and QM) have three options. Either they deliver it to correct place and get some bonus points in cargo. Or they open it/fail to deliver and get points subtracted from them (1-2 times the original cost of package). Third option is to deliver it incorrectly, or in wrong state (unlocked, unwrapped (they all will be wrapped by default). This will give lesser penalty.

 

Obviously there will be many parameters that can be set - rarity of facemelting stuff to be delivered (and no syndicate bundles), amount of stuff per cargo ship, timers till delivery, etc etc.

 

Maybe add events where mysterious package arrives containing sick l00t, moneys or even really murdery animals (hell, the EXPERIMENTOR delivers this already). Or mysterious documents from syndicate, uncovering the name of one of the antagonists in the round. Obviously with a small bomb in that paper that will detonate on reading in 5 seconds (so others have to beleive you)

 

*EDIT: Items are delivered on the CC shuttle, so if you don't call it (if the cargo is unmanned or busy), points won't get subtracted

 

[Holyass]

 

mm remove the bomb and add in a toxin spray, Less messy more damage

 

So what i think, they little more then civilians that have access to cargo and it's autolathe and can order stuff, other then that i don't see them manning the mail office tho... I say Make them do stuff like man the mailing officer or they be fired and gather crates from the deep bowles of the station and maybe deliver the crates that people order by hand and not send it by that robot of theirs where it can be stolen from...

 

[Keroman]

 

I was waiting until a few people posted here before making my own suggestion. There's two things that I'd like to see for Cargo Techs (which would also affect the QM).

 

1) I'd like to see what would happen if Cargo Techs had basic access to all departments for the purposes of hand-delivering crates. I think this would make people more likely to pick Cargo Techs because in general people see more access as being better regardless of their role. They still wouldn't be able to meddle with anything that's not related to their jobs, and if they're entering a department just to greytide around they can be kicked out and demoted, but antags could easily fabricate a reason to enter a department by ordering supplies for that department and hand delivering them.

 

2) Locked crates should be openable in the same way abandoned crates are. The caveat here is that as soon as you attempt to guess the code a tamper alert pops up which is visible to anyone who examines the crate. The tamper alert remains until the crate opens, so if the person the crate is intended for just opens it up without examining it the Cargo Tech might get away with tampering. This would by no means guarantee that Cargo Techs could get into every single crate, since you only get a limited number of chances to open any given crate, and really if they're opening crates of weapons and running around shooting people they're going to get bwoinked pretty damn quick.

 

NethIafin:

I'm having trouble understanding what you're suggesting regarding the secondary station. Maybe I have to read over your previous post about that.

I do like the idea of having mystery crates arrive with potentially dangerous things inside, although deciding what should be included would be another thread in and of itself. I could imagine a Cargo Tech antag item which allows them to have a booby-trapped crate with a custom name they could set manually (so it mimics the name on the order form). Crate gets delivered, person opens it and goes boom.

 

Holyass:

I'm not sure what you mean about bombs and toxin sprays. That stuff doesn't really have anything to do with Cargo Techs, but maybe you could bring it up when we talk about the Scientist role? I would like to see the autolathe get moved to the Cargo lobby so anyone can use it, and it's up to the Cargo crew to keep it stocked with materials.

I'm not sure forcing Cargo Techs to man the mailroom or face punishment would make the role more fun, per se. Gathering empty crates form maintenance is definitely something that Cargo Techs can already do, and I have seen it happen several times. Maybe add empty crates to the round-start random maint spawns so there's more of them?

 

[Holyass]

 

The bomb part was from NethIafin post as he want to add in bombs to the lockers that sometimes shows up, I counter him by getting rid of the bombs and add in a toxin spray so it will be less messy and what not. :3

 

 

mmm I like that they can have a limited trys to open the crates but i say to only the low end crates and not to weapons crates or anything that end the round fast, due to that will just make even more greytides stealing weapons and making more mass panic.

 

[tristan1333]

might be cool to need the shuttle require some maintenance from the techs. Fixing random engines or other misc stuff so it can go back.

[Fox McCloud]

Stock market computers =p

[Keroman]

 

Stock market computers =p

 

Yes please! Or even things like trading via console, where the QM gets alerts about nearby ships looking to trade and offering a list of goods and things they'll accept in trade. I'm certain I saw something like that on another server once when I was very new to the game.

 

[Rurik]

I do not play cargo tech enough to have a good opinion on how to improve it, but I think the ideas suggested by Keroman and Fox McCloud would be pretty neat

[alexpkeaton]

 

Stock market computers =p

 

Yes please! Or even things like trading via console, where the QM gets alerts about nearby ships looking to trade and offering a list of goods and things they'll accept in trade. I'm certain I saw something like that on another server once when I was very new to the game.

 

Be able to convert credits into supply points (and back again?), and trade on a fluctuating stock market, that may be able to have some hints. Perhaps every shipping manifest gives a "stock tip" that will come to pass at a given station time.

 

Now, I'm going to spitball a bit, so let me know what looks interesting:

 

I think there should be more cargo telepads throughout the station. Make it possible to beam yourself inside a locker using the Rapid crate sender. Make Rapid Crate Senders produceable at autolathes.

 

Make a wider variety of items available via lathe, and even more if hacked.

 

Allow cargo to order lathe upgrade modules. That provide additional lathe options under the "imported" tab at extreme supply point prices.

 

Open up a mailroom separate from cargo, that cargo techs can staff. This has been discussed elsewhere.

 

I agree that crates should be able to be hacked, but in the event of complete failure, instead of blowing up, the crate instead locks down and now only a Captain-level ID will unlock it, instead of the usual access staff. Perhaps high-security crates such as weapons not only lock down but also take a photograph with a radius of three tiles that gets locked inside the crate of who was around the crate at the time of lockdown.

 

Have bounty bonuses: the supply console will display a list of unique or semi-unique items that will award significant supply point bonuses if sent to CC inside a crate. Things like fountain pens or a blue zippo lighter or the clown's stamp. You can negotiate with the relevant parties to obtain them... or try to steal them...

 

Make SolGov a more permanent fixture. Have the QM have the ability to redirect the Supply shuttle to SolGov (10 minute trip to move the shuttle and "obtain permits"), offering a slightly different pricing scheme, crate types, crate contents, and rewards for returning plasma, crates, research and manifests. Then 2 to 3 minutes for one-way shuttles afterwards.

 

Allow cargo to order Youtool vending crates... probably the only vendor people would really care about restocking.

 

And, it's been suggested before, I think: allow cargo to install their own custom vending machines with their own items and prices. Voxxy make corporate empire, yaya?

 

Perhaps all vending purchases on the station earn a small amount of supply points. Perhaps there is no regeneration at all, it is all driven by station commerce. Chef might start with his own branded vending machines that he or she can fill and set their own prices.

 

More interesting options available by emagging the supply console.

 

Instead of some crates coming with one fewer item (the ones you are supposed to mark the manifests as denied), instead send obvious syndicate contraband (nothing egregious) every now and again to spice things up. A mix-up with the bluespace supply management system. Now that order of a metal crate has a tiny chance of being swapped out for a locked Syndicate crate (only hackable or sliced open violently) containing any variety of items such as freedom implants, or no-slip shoes, Syndicate balloons or syndicate toolboxes. Sending Syndicate crates to CC with their locks intact offer a huge supply point reward by CC, or... you can break open the crate, which could be a gold mine, contain worthless items or be completely empty. Deal... or No Deal?

 

Give cargo techs webbing vests.

 

A la genetics, allow cargo techs to attempt to ping different combinations of numbers with the purpose of "identifying new supply vendors." Having the random number Gods smile on you by identifying such vendors could mean that a new crate option or three becomes unlocked for all crew to order from. Maybe 10-20 such crates among 5-10 additional vendors from the relatively useless (Donk Pockets crate) to the Syndicate themselves (Blood-Red Hardsuits + 3-4 other crates at ridiculous costs - traitor cargo techs could spend TC's on a Syndicate Supply Rewards Card which reveals the Syndicate frequency and offers a 50% off "friends and family discount") That way, there is something to do when nothing is going on.

 

Like I said, this was a total spitballing session. Feedback and feasibility is appreciated.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

Stock market computers =p

 

Yes please! Or even things like trading via console, where the QM gets alerts about nearby ships looking to trade and offering a list of goods and things they'll accept in trade. I'm certain I saw something like that on another server once when I was very new to the game.

 

Goonstation.

That's how Goonstation's cargo works/worked. You have a "Station budget" (The same on the HoP is meant to keep an eye on) That Cargo uses to buy items with as opposed to points.

Sending minerals and shit from mining, instead of awarding supply points, gives you money which is put into the Station's budget. So Cargo, as a department, isn't so much focused on ordering things for other people (Though that's part of it), but trying to keep the Station profitable as well as well supplied. Keep it in the black.

 

This also runs along side a possible RNG event in the same vein as the power outage or spess fungus, that NT may, at their leisure, pull funding from the station to apply it elsewhere, meaning Cargo and Mining have to pick up the slack to make a profit and keep money flowing into the station's account so that they can still order things and function.

Mining also has several minerals that are "Useless" but are worth a king's ransom when sold, Gemstones an the like.

 

 

We could totally go to goon's style of cargo and I am -beyond- okay with it, but that's a BIG Overhaul and it'd take a lot of work.

 

[improvedname]

Conveyor belts and mass drivers delivery system anyone?

[BiberDark]

 

How about a massiv reduction of tools and materials and improve the sortiment of the autolaith. So that all departements will order crates of tools for their staff.

 

Based of an old baddly equipped station, which will now be modernized and prepared for work.

 

 

For exmaple medbay:

- only one standard surgial kit

- only basic equipment in medbay ( one table, one scanner, one cryotube (low level) can be improved with science

- empty rooms what have to be constructed from engineering ( more to do for them )

- nanomeds do not supply health scanners, sryinges,

- belts and clothes has to be fabricated by the cargo team

- hardsuits have to be ordered or manufactured in cargo

- autolathes producing batches of srynges and other medical equipment ( they need ore input , starting with a basic amount to low level supply )

- hightech equipment has to be ordered via shuttle ( scanner , cryotubes )

 

* a change in cargopoints is required to handle this

 

Job for cargo is it to trade and mine resources and equipment for all departements in cooperation with the other departements. ( Supplier of Goods - Need support of others )

 

Same way for science departement:

- Layout : mostly empty rooms with power and air supply

- Gases, Liquids, GasTanks , Slimes, circuit boards,hardsuits, glases.... ( if not already researched ) all has to be ordered and handled by cargo. The RD has to organize a construction and order list based on is employes (full jobslots) --> Engineering and RD has to build the research equipment first. ( No more 5 min insta research because the computers and materials are not provided at roundstart )

 

 

The same goes for all departements! Excluded is engineering equipment for the power supply and athmosperics layout ( so roundstart is possible ) they are provided by nanotrasen

 

Result is:

- heavy increase in work for cargo ( a real departement of his own, like in the military )

- Cargo departement is now actually important to run and supply a station

- Trading is important to aquire needed money for the orders

- easy job and more job slots because of heavy increase of work for them

- management of cargo and cargopints is important ( each department has a contigent of points at roundstart ) (more points for completed research and productivity during the shift

- more flexibility in all other departements based on the crew in every shift

- engineering has work to do, even after the power supply ( upgrading te departements )

- more work for the big station poulation

- Heads now have to organize their deprtement or it will result in low productivity and chaos

- QM has to handle and authorisize all the orders so nobody is ignored

 

Overall

- more interessting rounds for everybody

- more opportunites to act for traitors because no one is bunkered down in his office with roundstart

- because of the construction tools are easier to get ( from cargo )

- Heads are more important

- Teamwork and RP in the departments could be improved through the needed teamwork

- new players can learn more about basics of this game in construction....

- less boring rounds

- station grows with its numbers

- less greytiders more jobs in engineering and cargo

 

CPU

- more performance because massiv reductions of items laying arround in the station ( mostly empty )

 

 

CON

- would be a massiv ammount of work to recreate the station map

- new items like big tanks has to be made constructable , same goes for different computersystems which until now can build at the station only in mapmaker

- massiv change of way how the game is played

 

 

I know this would be a massiv change in many ways. But think it would e worth it. What do you think ?

 

[Holyass]

 

Well dark, I like it but dislike it at the same time.

 

It give three paths for the server to go down.

 

1. Mass chaos and people are fighting over what scraps crago gets out.

 

2. Not soo much of a chaos that people are not killing yet and trying to work it out.

 

3 most not likely, we all hold hands and wait our turn at crago and get our stuff.

 

maybe 4. bomb go off in crago killing a lot of player due to some jackass that need to kill someone in there so he op to go mass bombing.

 

[davidchan]

 

Given how unsecure cargo really is, it's bad idea to incentivise even more people to break into Cargo to nab tools or goodies from their lathe. This would only lead to lathes having access restrictions like the RnD machines or Cargo ordering terminal, which is also bad. That said I do like the idea of raw or recycleable materials being strewn about the station that Cargo/RnD can break down for metal and glass or be exported for points to give assistants something to do, it'd be like harvest moon except your not searching the woods for honeycombs, your scavenging the abandoned parts of the station for goodies. That might even incentivise people to go to the derelict (aka the most underutilized facility in the game) to cannibalize it's systems to make the Cyberaid even better.

 

Increasing hostile mob counts around the derelict could make things interesting, or having an abondoned wing on the station that fills a similar purpose and maybe overrun wtih spiders or other potentially dangerous pests that the crew could either clear out every round or just barricade and seal the wing to keep the !FUN! stuff in there (do I hear reasonable place for a xeno hive?)

 

TL;DR everyone seems to want Cargo to be a trading post but most jobs just don't have anything worth trading. Fix that and and you'd have a good step on the road to an economic system people seem to want so bad.

 

[Keroman]

 

Be able to convert credits into supply points (and back again?), and trade on a fluctuating stock market, that may be able to have some hints. Perhaps every shipping manifest gives a "stock tip" that will come to pass at a given station time.

I'd be in favor of converting supply points to credits but not credits to supply points. Someone wins millions of dollars on the slot machines every other round, which would give Cargo way too much buying power.

 

I think there should be more cargo telepads throughout the station. Make it possible to beam yourself inside a locker using the Rapid crate sender. Make Rapid Crate Senders produceable at autolathes.

Yes more telepads. Beaming someone in a locker is already something you can do, but you have to have someone else use the RCS on the locker while you hide in it. Allowing someone to teleport themselves would be kinda OP.

 

Make a wider variety of items available via lathe, and even more if hacked.

Agreed.

 

Allow cargo to order lathe upgrade modules. That provide additional lathe options under the "imported" tab at extreme supply point prices.

Agreed.

 

Open up a mailroom separate from cargo, that cargo techs can staff. This has been discussed elsewhere.

Not really sure what the point of this would be. The entire point of the existing mailroom is to prep packages for delivery via disposals/RCs. We just need to help Cargo Techs get more familiar with those methods, or make them just as viable as, say, delivery by MULE or by hand.

 

I agree that crates should be able to be hacked, but in the event of complete failure, instead of blowing up, the crate instead locks down and now only a Captain-level ID will unlock it, instead of the usual access staff. Perhaps high-security crates such as weapons not only lock down but also take a photograph with a radius of three tiles that gets locked inside the crate of who was around the crate at the time of lockdown.

Yeah, I did intend that a crate that's tampered with locks down completely, although forcing a Captain-level ID in order to open it is kinda iffy.

 

Have bounty bonuses: the supply console will display a list of unique or semi-unique items that will award significant supply point bonuses if sent to CC inside a crate. Things like fountain pens or a blue zippo lighter or the clown's stamp. You can negotiate with the relevant parties to obtain them... or try to steal them...

Sounds like a good way to give the greytide something to do. Thumbs-up from me.

 

Make SolGov a more permanent fixture. Have the QM have the ability to redirect the Supply shuttle to SolGov (10 minute trip to move the shuttle and "obtain permits"), offering a slightly different pricing scheme, crate types, crate contents, and rewards for returning plasma, crates, research and manifests. Then 2 to 3 minutes for one-way shuttles afterwards.

Sure, more ordering options are always a plus.

 

Allow cargo to order Youtool vending crates... probably the only vendor people would really care about restocking.

Doesn't the restocking "glitch-aka-feature" allow you to just instantly restock Youtools as well? We definitely need to fix that, but also make restocking via modules a viable thing.

 

And, it's been suggested before, I think: allow cargo to install their own custom vending machines with their own items and prices. Voxxy make corporate empire, yaya?

Agreed! Custom vending machines would be a great addition!

 

Perhaps all vending purchases on the station earn a small amount of supply points. Perhaps there is no regeneration at all, it is all driven by station commerce.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of tying supply points to vendor usage, but as long as there's multiple ways to earn supply points (i.e. you can still get points for sending things back on the shuttle) then I'm all for giving it a shot.

 

More interesting options available by emagging the supply console.

Agreed.

 

Instead of some crates coming with one fewer item (the ones you are supposed to mark the manifests as denied), instead send obvious syndicate contraband (nothing egregious) every now and again to spice things up. A mix-up with the bluespace supply management system. Now that order of a metal crate has a tiny chance of being swapped out for a locked Syndicate crate (only hackable or sliced open violently) containing any variety of items such as freedom implants, or no-slip shoes, Syndicate balloons or syndicate toolboxes. Sending Syndicate crates to CC with their locks intact offer a huge supply point reward by CC, or... you can break open the crate, which could be a gold mine, contain worthless items or be completely empty. Deal... or No Deal?

I'll admit that I didn't even know crates with items missing on delivery was a thing. At any rate I'd be fine with having other shipping errors that Cargo must fix, but I don't really care for the idea of a crate of implants showing up instead of a crate of metal sheets. Sure, syndi-balloons or suspicious toolboxes are fine, as is anything that you might be able to find in maintenance.

 

Give cargo techs webbing vests.

Security will probably steal them every other round, but sure!

 

A la genetics, allow cargo techs to attempt to ping different combinations of numbers with the purpose of "identifying new supply vendors." Having the random number Gods smile on you by identifying such vendors could mean that a new crate option or three becomes unlocked for all crew to order from. Maybe 10-20 such crates among 5-10 additional vendors from the relatively useless (Donk Pockets crate) to the Syndicate themselves (Blood-Red Hardsuits + 3-4 other crates at ridiculous costs - traitor cargo techs could spend TC's on a Syndicate Supply Rewards Card which reveals the Syndicate frequency and offers a 50% off "friends and family discount") That way, there is something to do when nothing is going on.

Sure, again having more options for ordering stuff is a plus. Having more options for traitor Cargo Techs would be nice as well. The most we see from a traitor Cargo Tech nowadays is them ordering a bunch of weapons and attempting a killing spree (emphasis on attempting.)

 

We could totally go to goon's style of cargo and I am -beyond- okay with it, but that's a BIG Overhaul and it'd take a lot of work.

Be able to convert credits into supply points (and back again?), and trade on a fluctuating stock market, that may be able to have some hints. Perhaps every shipping manifest gives a "stock tip" that will come to pass at a given station time.

It'd be great to have a real, functioning economy in-game but there's some limiting factors. Persistency is probably the biggest one, since we don't have any way of deciding which rounds should be "canon" for any given character that's playing at any given time.

 

If we can find a way to make it work, though, I would love it.

 

Given how unsecure cargo really is, it's bad idea to incentivise even more people to break into Cargo to nab tools or goodies from their lathe. This would only lead to lathes having access restrictions like the RnD machines or Cargo ordering terminal, which is also bad. That said I do like the idea of raw or recycleable materials being strewn about the station that Cargo/RnD can break down for metal and glass or be exported for points to give assistants something to do, it'd be like harvest moon except your not searching the woods for honeycombs, your scavenging the abandoned parts of the station for goodies. That might even incentivise people to go to the derelict (aka the most underutilized facility in the game) to cannibalize it's systems to make the Cyberaid even better.

Yes, like alexpkeaton's suggestion of having items that grant bonus supply points when being shipped I'd like to have random loot be a more widespread thing over multiple z-levels. Once you get away from the station (aside from the recently added random space ruins) everything is more or less the same every round.

 

As for people breaking into cargo to use the autolathe, well, that's why I suggested moving it to the lobby. Let people use it as they wish with part of Cargo's responsibility being to keep it topped up with glass and metal. This will also let them focus on orders from the supply console since nobody needs to ask them to print out a bucket or a flashlight anymore.

 

Increasing hostile mob counts around the derelict could make things interesting, or having an abondoned wing on the station that fills a similar purpose and maybe overrun wtih spiders or other potentially dangerous pests that the crew could either clear out every round or just barricade and seal the wing to keep the !FUN! stuff in there (do I hear reasonable place for a xeno hive?)

Space needs to be more dangerous, yes. As for having an "abandoned" wing of the station... it might be worth trying out if someone's willing to map it. Lore-wise it's difficult to explain why there's even a single vacant office on the station, much less an entire department. Still, if it adds more variety to the game, sure!

 

[Kyet]

 

Quartermaster [...] Cargo Tech [...] some jobs just... aren't fun to play.

 

The fundamental problem with cargo is that there is very little interaction with the rest of the crew.

 

1) Other departments need almost nothing from Cargo.

- Sec, Medical, Science, etc can get extra supplies from Cargo, but they don't need to in most rounds.

- There is almost nothing *UNIQUE* that can only be obtained via Cargo. WT rifles for security are one of the only examples I can think of.

 

2) When other departments do need something, that something usually doesn't involve interaction with cargo in any significant way.

- Deliveries are done by conveyor/disposals, no human interaction required.

- Disks from Science can be placed in disposals, again, no interaction required other than a notice on radio. Just a notice, not even a conversation.

- With mining, people just walk up, dump ore from the machine, and walk away. Not even a 'hello' is required for this transaction.

 

3) The location is terrible.

- Cargo is unique in that it is the only department on the west side of the station, the dead zone where nobody really goes.

- It isn't even near the rest of the civil department (a department which is, in general, badly laid out)

- Nor is it on the path between any two popular destinations.

 

4) Cargo's job isn't very meaningful

- Only the QM can approve crates, and 'move crates from loading bay to conveyors, wrap them, apply a mark, then activate conveyor' is not a useful job.

- Hand-delivery isn't possible due to lack of access.

- Crate senders are inconvenient. Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to put the Science telepad in the EXPERIMENTOR chamber, on the other side of the department from R&D, in a room that is frequently home to EMPs and monsters?

 

My suggestions for fixing these issues:

A) Add more unique gear that can only be obtained via Cargo, probably for high point cost.

B) Make departments actually require interaction with Cargo for certain high-tier items. E.g: Cargo should be able to order things which, when deconstructed in Science, give illegal tech levels. This would be far better for both Science and Cargo players, than Science players having to deal with the disaster that is the EXPERIMENTOR, and Cargo having little of value they can order. Cargo should also have a role in ordering more high-tier weapons/armor for sec, and possibly extra Engineering hardsuits. Things people might really find useful in their departments. A great example would be extra null rods for replacement chaplains, extra revolver for replacement detectives, etc.

C) Give Cargo Techs basic department access, so they can hand-deliver items without it being a massive pain in the ass. Also so traitor cargo tech is more viable.

D) Allow the cargo shuttle to be sent to a 'black market' trader that isn't CC. This trader would use a different supply point total, independent of the CC supply point total, which would start at 0, and not regenerate. AKA: the only way to order things from this supply source is to ship THEM useful stuff for points FIRST, then, once you have points, order stuff from them. The stuff orderable via this method should be mostly black market items. Illegal knockoffs of good but restricted items. Of course, using this cargo this way should be against SoP, and using it this way to procure weapons should be a space law violation. So should selling rare/valuable items from the station on the black market. However, all this could make for great RP. Smuggling ring in cargo...

E) Rethink the locks on cargo crates. They shouldn't be so hard to break into. Right now, they're basically cargo's version of lockboxes. The only way to really break them with any speed is to order emitters, set up those, and hope nobody notices the giant industrial lasers. Also, Cargo are the storage specialists. Let them order, and sell to crew, "personal crates" and/or personal lockers. Things which, when you swipe your ID on them, only open for you from then on (or Captain). Like the personal lockers in the locker room, but easier to move around. If Cargo is ordering from the black market, let them buy versions that look the same but don't open for ANYONE other than the authorized owner, not even the Captain (of course, they can still be broken into, and are contraband). Let cargo sell storage solutions, like a portable version of the Captain's wall safe. Let them, for a very high cost, order crates that let them set up a permanent teleporter between two locations, like, say, Sec and the Bridge.

F) Let the QM set a "risk factor" for their shipments from CC. At "None", cargo behaves as currently, with no risky events possible. At "low", CC may sometimes send cargo shuttles with, say, a lone hostile russian on board, letting the crew deal with him in exchange for a small supply point bonus. At "medium", sometimes CC might send a cargo shuttle loaded with a "gift" from the spider clan (a bunch of spiders), or a small group of russians armed with melee weapons. At "high", admins should be able to manually initiate high-risk cargo loads, like for example mysterious artifacts that NT has recovered and wants analysed on a remote station where, if they have horrible mind-alerting powers, they can do limited harm. If the artifact is successfully analysed in Science, the analysed version can be returned to cargo and shipped back for lots of points. The idea being that Cargo can, if the QM allows it, become notably more dangerous by indicating that they're willing to take on risky shipments in exchange for a point bonus.

 

[subdon]

 

well, my 2 cents here: i have seen some servers like aurora use a "random shit spawner" in cargo warehouse, looks good in concept, since cargo is stocked shift by shift its logical to assume cargo warehouse could host random junk for cargo to sell (or loot)

 

cons: LOOOOT, basically, unless SOP or rules stating that some portion or all the cargo stock is to be sold, this will end up on being massively looted by the cargo staff and none will see the light of day

 

Disclaimer: i dont play cargo, just handing my suggestion for it to be more popular.

 

[BiberDark]

 

TZO wrote

 

1) Other departments need almost nothing from Cargo.

- Sec, Medical, Science, etc can get extra supplies from Cargo, but they don't need to in most rounds.

- There is almost nothing *UNIQUE* that can only be obtained via Cargo. WT rifles for security are one of the only examples I can think of.

 

 

If they have to build and restore the departments they would have to order a lot of things from cargo (like my suggestion)

 

How about a massiv reduction of tools and materials and improve the sortiment of the autolaith. So that all departements will order crates of tools for their staff.

 

Based of an old baddly equipped station, which will now be modernized and prepared for work.

 

 

For exmaple medbay:

- only one standard surgial kit

- only basic equipment in medbay ( one table, one scanner, one cryotube (low level) can be improved with science

- empty rooms what have to be constructed from engineering ( more to do for them )

- nanomeds do not supply health scanners, sryinges,

- belts and clothes has to be fabricated by the cargo team

- hardsuits have to be ordered or manufactured in cargo

- autolathes producing batches of srynges and other medical equipment ( they need ore input , starting with a basic amount to low level supply )

- hightech equipment has to be ordered via shuttle ( scanner , cryotubes )

 

* a change in cargopoints is required to handle this

 

Job for cargo is it to trade and mine resources and equipment for all departements in cooperation with the other departements. ( Supplier of Goods - Need support of others )

 

Same way for science departement:

- Layout : mostly empty rooms with power and air supply

- Gases, Liquids, GasTanks , Slimes, circuit boards,hardsuits, glases.... ( if not already researched ) all has to be ordered and handled by cargo. The RD has to organize a construction and order list based on is employes (full jobslots) --> Engineering and RD has to build the research equipment first. ( No more 5 min insta research because the computers and materials are not provided at roundstart )

 

 

The same goes for all departements! Excluded is engineering equipment for the power supply and athmosperics layout ( so roundstart is possible ) they are provided by nanotrasen

 

Result is:

- heavy increase in work for cargo ( a real departement of his own, like in the military )

- Cargo departement is now actually important to run and supply a station

- Trading is important to aquire needed money for the orders

- easy job and more job slots because of heavy increase of work for them

- management of cargo and cargopints is important ( each department has a contigent of points at roundstart ) (more points for completed research and productivity during the shift

- more flexibility in all other departements based on the crew in every shift

- engineering has work to do, even after the power supply ( upgrading te departements )

- more work for the big station poulation

- Heads now have to organize their deprtement or it will result in low productivity and chaos

- QM has to handle and authorisize all the orders so nobody is ignored

 

Overall

- more interessting rounds for everybody

- more opportunites to act for traitors because no one is bunkered down in his office with roundstart

- because of the construction tools are easier to get ( from cargo )

- Heads are more important

- Teamwork and RP in the departments could be improved through the needed teamwork

- new players can learn more about basics of this game in construction....

- less boring rounds

- station grows with its numbers

- less greytiders more jobs in engineering and cargo

 

CPU

- more performance because massiv reductions of items laying arround in the station ( mostly empty )

 

 

CON

- would be a massiv ammount of work to recreate the station map

- new items like big tanks has to be made constructable , same goes for different computersystems which until now can build at the station only in mapmaker

- massiv change of way how the game is played

 

 

I know this would be a massiv change in many ways. But think it would e worth it. What do you think ?

 

 

TZO wrote

2) When other departments do need something, that something usually doesn't involve interaction with cargo in any significant way.

- Deliveries are done by conveyor/disposals, no human interaction required.

- Disks from Science can be placed in disposals, again, no interaction required other than a notice on radio. Just a notice, not even a conversation.

- With mining, people just walk up, dump ore from the machine, and walk away. Not even a 'hello' is required for this transaction.

 

 

- place the ore redemption in cargo not outside ,

- maybe a requestform for ores (paperwork) stamped by cargo or qm

- maybe like the Post, cargo delivers and the person who recieves is has to sign on a digital pad with his fingerprint ( a control system and a computer where you can see what was ordered, who has delivered it and who did get it

- Change cargo points to credits , we already have departement accounts, we still dont use them (creditchip dispenser in the departement ?)

- remove the autolath from science so they need to oder stuff from cargo instead

 

TZO wrote

Make departments actually require interaction with Cargo for certain high-tier items. E.g: Cargo should be able to order things which, when deconstructed in Science, give illegal tech levels. This would be far better for both Science and Cargo players, than Science players having to deal with the disaster that is the EXPERIMENTOR, and Cargo having little of value they can order. Cargo should also have a role in ordering more high-tier weapons/armor for sec, and possibly extra Engineering hardsuits. Things people might really find useful in their departments. A great example would be extra null rods for replacement chaplains, extra revolver for replacement detectives, etc.

 

- the station has to be empty, no tools no hightech machines everything has to be produced and researched first ( materials from cargo until you are self sufficient)

 

TZO wrote

4) Cargo's job isn't very meaningful

- Only the QM can approve crates, and 'move crates from loading bay to conveyors, wrap them, apply a mark, then activate conveyor' is not a useful job.

- Hand-delivery isn't possible due to lack of access.

- Crate senders are inconvenient. Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to put the Science telepad in the EXPERIMENTOR chamber, on the other side of the department from R&D, in a room that is frequently home to EMPs and monsters?

 

 

- maybe a postoffice in each departement , where packets are send ( signed and so o see above ) + basic access

 

 

.................................................................................

TZO wrote

3) The location is terrible.

- Cargo is unique in that it is the only department on the west side of the station, the dead zone where nobody really goes.

- It isn't even near the rest of the civil department (a department which is, in general, badly laid out)

- Nor is it on the path between any two popular destinations.

 

 

- Swap medbay with cargo -> bt you have to make a docking port there or split cargo into two rooms one on the center -> distribution and one at the outside cargo dock connected through conveyers

- Medbay could have more space for chem , surgery, bedrooms

- Cargo is to big i think

 

-----------------------------------------------

Idea of a black market : yes --> source of contrabande and technical prototypes (really expensive)

Trading : yes --> credits for ore and items

Lockbox : a crackable code (not only a traitor item or this big laserbeam)

 

[StubbsPKS]

 

I'll start this off by saying that Cargo is one of the roles I play the most. I actually really enjoy it in it's current form, but can absolutely see how it would get stale fast and I've also had shifts that seemed to drag because no one needed to order much.

 

First and foremost, the QM should have command chat on his headset and the ability to make a station announcement. He doesn't need Bridge access or anything crazy, but a dept head should be able to talk to QM over the radio in a more direct manner to make any of the changes suggested here more expedient. Otherwise, I may have to sit and wait on paperwork, which a lot of people don't seem to enjoy.

 

I think the most useful improvements are those that will INCREASE interaction with other departments. I LOVE the idea of a randomly generated list of items that NT needs send back that shift. This would also mean that the QM would be responsible for sharing that list via station announcement at round start.

 

I also like the idea of being a little more limiting on what supplies are around so that more people need to come by cargo.

 

However, this means that more telepads (or being able to make them somewhat easily) should be around the station because the mail system can be pretty fragile and isn't super easy to fix once it breaks.

 

I also wish there was some incentive for non-cargo people to use the mail room to send packages to other departments. I'd probably be quite happy to man to mail room for part of a shift if people actually wanted to use it. Maybe make it so that you can write a destination on packages with a pen before dropping it into disposals and then we can use our destination tagger to make sure it gets where you wanted it? This would mean people wouldn't need to physically walk to the mail room and might make mailing things more common.

 

It'd be great to have a real, functioning economy in-game but there's some limiting factors. Persistency is probably the biggest one, since we don't have any way of deciding which rounds should be "canon" for any given character that's playing at any given time.

 

If we can find a way to make it work, though, I would love it.

 

Why does persistence matter here? The economy only really "exists" in the current shift, so it shouldn't matter if it's "canon" for the characters. If I'm not mistaken you're not meant to IC remember specifics about shifts anyway, right? I think it would should be able to achieve a pretty basic working economy, but it would likely be a lot of overhaul an testing wokring. That being said, there's nothing wrong with making it a long-term goal and then making short-term decisions to work toward that goal.

 

Given how unsecure cargo really is, it's bad idea to incentivise even more people to break into Cargo to nab tools or goodies from their lathe. This would only lead to lathes having access restrictions like the RnD machines or Cargo ordering terminal, which is also bad. That said I do like the idea of raw or recycleable materials being strewn about the station that Cargo/RnD can break down for metal and glass or be exported for points to give assistants something to do, it'd be like harvest moon except your not searching the woods for honeycombs, your scavenging the abandoned parts of the station for goodies. That might even incentivise people to go to the derelict (aka the most underutilized facility in the game) to cannibalize it's systems to make the Cyberaid even better.

 

I like this. Scavenge and be rewarded. Maybe turning in items to Cargo via a machine of some sort could reward some credits or something? Would promote the greytide to bring us goodies.

 

As for people breaking into cargo to use the autolathe, well, that's why I suggested moving it to the lobby. Let people use it as they wish with part of Cargo's responsibility being to keep it topped up with glass and metal. This will also let them focus on orders from the supply console since nobody needs to ask them to print out a bucket or a flashlight anymore.

 

 

If we're going to increase the things that can be made in the autolathe, is it a good idea to just plop it out there for anyone to hack/use?

 

EDIT:

C) Give Cargo Techs basic department access, so they can hand-deliver items without it being a massive pain in the ass. Also so traitor cargo tech is more viable.

 

I don't really have an opinion on this since the only cargo tech tator I've been was blob and I started in maint near disposals which was a pretty decent spot.

 

D) Allow the cargo shuttle to be sent to a 'black market' trader that isn't CC. This trader would use a different supply point total, independent of the CC supply point total, which would start at 0, and not regenerate. AKA: the only way to order things from this supply source is to ship THEM useful stuff for points FIRST, then, once you have points, order stuff from them. The stuff orderable via this method should be mostly black market items. Illegal knockoffs of good but restricted items. Of course, using this cargo this way should be against SoP, and using it this way to procure weapons should be a space law violation. So should selling rare/valuable items from the station on the black market. However, all this could make for great RP. Smuggling ring in cargo...

 

I love this.

 

E) Rethink the locks on cargo crates. They shouldn't be so hard to break into. Right now, they're basically cargo's version of lockboxes. The only way to really break them with any speed is to order emitters, set up those, and hope nobody notices the giant industrial lasers. Also, Cargo are the storage specialists. Let them order, and sell to crew, "personal crates" and/or personal lockers. Things which, when you swipe your ID on them, only open for you from then on (or Captain). Like the personal lockers in the locker room, but easier to move around. If Cargo is ordering from the black market, let them buy versions that look the same but don't open for ANYONE other than the authorized owner, not even the Captain (of course, they can still be broken into, and are contraband). Let cargo sell storage solutions, like a portable version of the Captain's wall safe. Let them, for a very high cost, order crates that let them set up a permanent teleporter between two locations, like, say, Sec and the Bridge.

 

 

This is actually a big problem with cargo. If I order a crate, I have to hand deliver it if I want to accurately check the contents before stamping the manifest because I can't check what's in it without the right access. It's a PITA and means I just stamp pretty much everything as good and accept the point loss when I'm wrong.

 

F) Let the QM set a "risk factor" for their shipments from CC. At "None", cargo behaves as currently, with no risky events possible. At "low", CC may sometimes send cargo shuttles with, say, a lone hostile russian on board, letting the crew deal with him in exchange for a small supply point bonus. At "medium", sometimes CC might send a cargo shuttle loaded with a "gift" from the spider clan (a bunch of spiders), or a small group of russians armed with melee weapons. At "high", admins should be able to manually initiate high-risk cargo loads, like for example mysterious artifacts that NT has recovered and wants analysed on a remote station where, if they have horrible mind-alerting powers, they can do limited harm. If the artifact is successfully analysed in Science, the analysed version can be returned to cargo and shipped back for lots of points. The idea being that Cargo can, if the QM allows it, become notably more dangerous by indicating that they're willing to take on risky shipments in exchange for a point bonus.

 

This is also an amazing suggestion. I love the idea of NT sending us a message that says they're sending us some ancient alien tech they found and want us to study it. It could even just be implemented as a random station event (like Meteors, radiation fields, etc) at first to test the idea with the players. Doing an MVP like that first would require less coding than making a whole new setting for risk and would be less "wasted" time if the players didn't like the mechanic.

 

If it goes well, you could eventually incorporate this into science to make studying the object more interactive than stuffing it into the EXPERIMENTOR. Once we study it, maybe we could then have the option of sending it back for massive points or keeping it and saying it didn't work (no points) so we can use it for ourselves.

 

[Keroman]

 

Alright, as a final review here are the ideas that have been suggested (some have been summarized). I'll bring this list to the attention of the rest of the staff and we'll see what ideas stand out the most. As stated in the original post I can't guarantee that any of these ideas will be implemented in the game at any time, but at least this is a step in the right direction towards improving the game!

 

- Cargo as a stopping point for passing ships delivering items to other locations. CT/QM verifies contents of crates being delivered, chance of dangerous equipment/mislabeled crates. Add supply points for ensuring these crates are packaged correctly, deduct supply points for improperly marked/tampered crates.

- Require mailroom to be staffed more often or open up a mailroom separate from cargo which can be staffed by CTs/QM. Require gathering of empty crates from around station. Require delivery of crates by hand.

- Give CT/QM basic access to all departments.

- Allow locked crates to be opened in the same way abandoned crates are. Tampered crates will show evidence of tampering/sound alarm/take photo of area around crate. Failure to unlock crate locks it down completely except to Captain-level ID.

- Cargo shuttle occasionally needs maintenance.

- Add Stock Market/Trading Console

- Convert credits to supply points and/or vice versa

- Shipping manifests in crates include "stock tip" (if Stock Market feature is added)

- Add telepads throughout station for use by cargo. Allow players to beam themselves to any telepad by using RCS from inside locker. Allow RCS to be made in autolathe.

- More items in autolathe, both hacked/unhacked. Possibly add autolathe "upgrades" which can be ordered.

- Station-wide scavenger hunt - some items listed as giving supply point bonus if shipped back on cargo shuttle.

- Allow CT/QM to use console to search for other Cargo Shuttle destinations for different price lists/ordering options/return rewards: SolGov, Syndicate (for emagged cargo console), black market

- Youtool vending restock crates

- Add custom vending machines - players build vending machine, add items, set prices.

- Suppy points restocked by purchases from vending machines rather than slowly gained over time.

- More options for emagged consoles/console boards.

- More options for shipping mistakes - Syndicate contraband sent instead of metal crate. Mistaken orders can be sent back or broken into.

- Webbing for CT/QM.

- Switch to station-economy system (not really in the scope of this post but worth talking about anyways!)

- Add conveyor belt/mass driver delivery system

- Remove most equipment from station at round-start to require crew to order equipment based on current need.

- Add supply point reward to raw materials so Assistants have incentive to hunt for it in maint an return it to Cargo for reward.

- More hostile mobs around derelict, add abandoned section to station, potentially with hostile mobs.

- Add more gear that can only be ordered from Cargo, especially high-tier/late-game items, like things that can be deconstructed in R&D for illegal tech.

- Add personal crates/lockers (like the ones in locker room) for order from Cargo so players can lock their items up for safety/contraband version that locks out even the Captain.

- Add teleporter crate that can be ordered so Cargo can set up more telepads and/or direct teleport between two locations.

- Add "risk factor" to Cargo shuttle. None = same as now, low risk = minor danger but minor reward, high = high risk high reward.

- Add random-item spawns to warehouse so Cargo has random stock of items at round start that they can sell/trade/dole out.

- Move ORM to the inside of Cargo.

- Add ore request form?

- Require signature/fingerprint for delivery. Add console to monitor things like package arrival time, delivery time, who delivered, who signed for.

- Remove autolathe from R&D so the one in Cargo must be used.

- Remove all high-tech machines from round-start so Cargo and R&D must gradually build up tech level of station.

- Small mailroom in each dept. where package are received/signed for

- Give QM Command radio access and Station Announcement access.

- CentCom request list: items that should be sent back on the Cargo Shuttle in order for Cargo to get a "Job Complete" at end-round screen.

- Add function for people to write destination on packages and drop them into disposals so mailroom can direct them to the right place.

 

---

 

I'll get the next job improvement thread up shortly.

 

[Farya]

Sounds good. But we need restock units for every vendor. Like nanovends(including emergency ones), secvend and vendor in gas lab.