Cloning memory disorder should be a requirement

[Rumiluntti]

 

This is impossible to actually enforce and forces you to RP in some restricted manner "GEE GOLLY GUYS, I SURE DO FEEL DEM CRAPETY CREEPS RUNNING DOWN MY NECK NEAR MR. MURDER MCFART!"

 

Not only is this the exact kind of forcefeeding RP stuff we have decided to steer from, it also adds nothing else.

Even adding the clone testimony thing to spess law would do jack shit as it would still put Mr. Murder McFart into the security shitlist.

 

I also see no reason to make it any easier for antags with this. If you need to kill someone, do it well and plan it. Don't run at them with your antag pew pew gun and shoot all witnesses too, that gets you caught.

 

[scrubmcnoob]

 

Okay so to avoid a wall of text and playing a 12 hour game of buzzword, going try to keep this short.

 

If you die, you're dead. You aren't coming back unless some one else brings you back and it's not a straw man argument to suggest the person won't be cloned, as it happens often. If an Antag can kill without having to worry about the person remembering them, they will be more apt to kill which is ironically creating more dead people. Those dead people need to DEPEND on a medbay to get brought into the round. Cremated or not, they could literally still rot the entire round and this does happen, quite often on 100+ rounds.

 

Time was mentioned because you say you forget your killer but what happens when sec asks you "Who was the last person you saw?" Now how much of your memory is erased, at which point are you safe to recall? This great lack of detail will lead to unintentional rule breaking and unneeded confusion.

 

Finally, probably the most important point of this whole argument.

A majority of players do not want this for the perfectly valid reasons we provided against it, and the fact that this is more of a heavy RP mechanic. We are against for making people play stupid and only enforce medium RP, not bay level of memory forgetting.

 

Your cause is noble, to keep more people alive during a round, but this will ironically only further promote murder and more sloppy antag behavior.

 

[Anticept]

 

Okay so to avoid a wall of text and playing a 12 hour game of buzzword, going try to keep this short.

 

If you die, you're dead. You aren't coming back unless some one else brings you back and it's not a straw man argument to suggest the person won't be cloned, as it happens often. If an Antag can kill without having to worry about the person remembering them, they will be more apt to kill which is ironically creating more dead people. Those dead people need to DEPEND on a medbay to get brought into the round. Cremated or not, they could literally still rot the entire round and this does happen, quite often on 100+ rounds.

 

Alright, NOW I see how you are trying to connect the two together. You didn't mention increasing the body count and overwhelming the cloner; you had only spoke about whether or not a body is recovered and cloning is even being done, which is why I called it a strawman. That said though: I still think you're blowing it out of proportion though, and a person running around indiscriminately killing is still going to dramatically increase their risk of being caught. Personally, I find such wildly violent antags get caught in the act rather than someone launching out of a cloner pointing the finger at them.

 

Time was mentioned because you say you forget your killer but what happens when sec asks you "Who was the last person you saw?" Now how much of your memory is erased, at which point are you safe to recall? This great lack of detail will lead to unintentional rule breaking and unneeded confusion.

 

It certainly wouldn't be the killer as an answer. It's fair enough to say you were last heading to SW solars to work on wiring them... then it's a blur. Or, in another example, lets say your boss asks you to come along and help, to which they brutally murder you after a few minutes when the opportunity finally presents itself. Perfectly fine to state you were working on a project with them... then nothing.

 

That said, yes, asking who you last saw could result in shitlisting a co-worker in the above case... but this won't work in all cases either, the wrong person can inadvertently get shitlisted and waste time quite often too as different people will answer the question differently, so it has its own built in anti-valid.

 

The idea is that when the stress levels increase, that's around the time that CMD would kick in. The whole point would be pretty obvious though with the right message in the cloner, such as "You've forgotten the details of your killer and events leading up to it. Details are a blur. You're not even sure if you can remember what you were doing before your death."

 

Finally, probably the most important point of this whole argument.

A majority of players do not want this for the perfectly valid reasons we provided against it, and the fact that this is more of a heavy RP mechanic. We are against for making people play stupid and only enforce medium RP, not bay level of memory forgetting.

 

I wish to know the method that you are using to count "the majority". :-). But, should this be true, that's all that needs to be said!

 

What do you consider "heavy RP" vs "medium RP"?

 

Your cause is noble, to keep more people alive during a round, but this will ironically only further promote murder and more sloppy antag behavior.

 

I'm not sure if I agree with this. I'd love to see it played out in practice to see what happens before coming to that conclusion.

 

[BiberDark]

 

Finally, probably the most important point of this whole argument.

A majority of players do not want this for the perfectly valid reasons we provided against it, and the fact that this is more of a heavy RP mechanic. We are against for making people play stupid and only enforce medium RP, not bay level of memory forgetting.

 

If you call this a heavy RP mechanic, then thist throws a very bad light on your understanding of RP. The CMD is not heavy RP not even medium RP. It is a basic ruleset where have to forget what happend before, the case not a specific time.

 

Just to clarify this, heavy Rp would be that after cloning you have no memories about you death and you develope a Posttraumatic stress syndrome, where you need a psych with at least 10 sessions and medicamentation. Because everytime something is a bit like the circumstances in your death you get a heavy heartbeat, sweat, you couldn´t concentrate and anxiety, nightmares, you're afraid of anything and everyone. You would not be able to work normaly and do your job.

 

This is heavy RP

 

Medium RP would be like that.

You awake from the cloner, and have a unsettling feeling that something bad has happend. But you cant remember anything bad that has happend to you, because of the traumatic shock. You dont remember, but it is fine to work normally. But if you go to some place you have a strange feeling, and you try to avoid it or the person.

 

 

Low RP

You awake, you have no memory of the incident. You go to work.

 

 

No RP

You awake and cry the fuckshit syndic XY killed me with a fucking lasersword in location Z. ( the current state)

 

 

A majority of players do not want this for the perfectly valid reasons we provided against it, and the fact that this is more of a heavy RP mechanic. We are against for making people play stupid and only enforce medium RP, not bay level of memory forgetting.

 

Sure because the griefers and validhunters would have nothing to do, if they don´t know the person.

 

And what is your majority, for this we would need a server voting in byond for at least two weeks, 1 vote for one byondkey.

 

[Rurik]

 

Afraid I simply cant get behind this, as I hate the idea of pretending I have no idea who killed me. While the idea of clone testimony not being valid is neat, security will still search them & keep a close eye on them. Also, I don't think this will tone down on murders as well. I'm just not seeing the point.

 

That being said, if it was somehow implemented temporary for a day or two as a test, I would be alright with that.

 

[NethIafin]

 

yeah

 

And then someone dons perfect disguise and kills you while he is wearing an indistinguishable suit, with fake ID and voice changer

 

and then you ghost

 

and then you spoop the living fuck out of antag's true identity, coz "muh CMD rights, CMD does not exist"

 

and noone can prove that you got that info from being ghost and not from seing antag murdering you.

 

---------------------------------------

 

This is all really gray. Half year before all this, when CMD was sorta enforced, I was leaving people in places where they can be picked up. Even moving then to public areas. Hell... sometimes I even move them to cloning myself.

Now I space every single fucker. You saw me? to the spess you go.

-------

And then they join as cyborg and "accidentaly" find their body. Yeah... that happened...

 

[Rumiluntti]

 

CMD was never enforced.

People just decided to do it, kinda like vox using trainwreck english.

I play with CMD if the guy who murderized me actually spent any effort to kill me.

 

[GelatinousGlob]

 

Yeah, depending on how I was murdered and how it was setup I will use CMD. If he did really well like Rumi said then Ill 'forget' important details. If someone snuck up on me and garrotted me in a mask but they forgot to stash their PDA im not going to remember their exact name unless I broke free at one point or they fucked up and revealed themselves first. Usually I give security or the detective enough evidence to get on the trail but they are usually too lazy and it is their own loss. Like the other day I had a run in with a traitor and I told them it was a vox scientist, there was only one vox scientist on board so I knew who it was from the start but if security can't spend the 5 seconds to open their PDA and check the crew manifest than that is their problem.

 

On the other hand if someone is a complete retard or asshole that tried to gib me or threw my body into space for absolutely no reason like changlings like to do then yeah, im going to remember a whole lot.