Unknown - Spawning Nazis

[Tayswift]

 

Admin Key: N/A

 

Your Discord name (if applicable): Lorin

 

Complaint:

 

One of my favorite parts of this server is how the admins are really on top of banning racism, homophobia, etc, and keeping the station a fun and generally apolitical place. However, while I know it was done in good spirit, I don't think it's a good idea to spawn actual nazis onto the server (yes, I know they weren't literally labeled nazis, but let's just call a spade a spade?). Spawning nazis is particularly problematic because the Third Reich was founded on racism (not to mention that neo nazism is alive and well). I think there's just this disturbing undercurrent of racism and antisemitism that comes with nazi imagery. It's not overtly against the rules, but I think it's really toeing the line. I know I would be uncomfortable playing as something that looks like a nazi.

 

I don't want to just complain, though. I think there are other ways to do factions without having to resort to nazi imagery. Some ideas:

- Do fascists, but with costumes that don't resemble those that Nazi Germany used

- Other political factions besides fascists, such as anarchists, neoliberals (I guess that's kinda nanotrasen?), or maybe ecoterrorists. I think there's a lot of potential for factions that could be fun to RP without evoking nazi imagery.

 

Thank you for reading,

Tay

 

[LightFire53]

 

I do believe they were spawn as facist soldiers, using equipment that is already in our code. Clown Soldiers, for instance, wear the very WWII designed regalia, and is in fact, where their gear was pulled from.

 

Why the suits are labeled as Nazi uniforms, is a good question though.

 

[Elysian_prince]

 

Hey there, I was the one who organized the two parties--both the Communists and the Fascists.

 

While you bring some points about, i'd like to get a decent understanding of the merit of this complaint. The assumption due to the gear that they were 'nazis', and therefore anti-semetic and racist inherently. I'll start with some agreements here: the term brings up ideas of it certainly--and on normal accounts, yes, if I condoned a group of OOC racist allowing, genociding, warmongering peoples onboard the Cyberiad, then by all means, i'd give this complaint all the merit I can.

 

However, in response to your statements I would like to say a few things. Ideology, however good, bad, right, wrong it may be stays so. One can be a fascist and not a nazi--and while it may have looked eerily similar, the clown officer and clown soldier uniforms were used to equip the counter-invaders against the Soviets (though I, admittedly removed the 'clown' part from the name of the object, perhaps I shouldn't have). Shift-click on them, and the flavor text for clown army is still there. No use of the word 'nazi' was used, and I explicitly told those who were in the group to not say much. Despite that, I will take into consideration and will perform my best to separate the apparent image of a nazi from a fascist in the future.

 

In addition, historically, no, the Third Reich was not founded on solely on racism. It was founded mostly on revanchism, anti-communism(or anti social-democratism--basically, anti-far left, left), anti-Entente powers and anti-Versailles treaty, anger towards the western powers for Versailles, and extreme patriotism. The foundation of fascism is basically the above reasons, with the exclusion of specifics--mostly just pertaining to anti-left policies and extreme patriotism. Distrust towards those of different ethinicities was long rooted in Europe (not just Germany) prior to the 20th century. It just so happened that the leader that took over the NSDAP (Germany's Fascist party), happened to have a grand distrust for a lot of people/ideologies, and gained the power and support (through propaganda, control of mass-media, secrecy, and promises to the German people) to do as he pleased, through manipulation, of course.

 

On a side-note, and I understand that the use of racist structures is still unjustifiable, I am fairly certain that the Soviet Union targeted both minorities and anyone who disagreed--killing off more people than the nazi's ended up doing.

 

[Tayswift]

 

Crap, I think I lost my previous response so I'm sorry if I'm reposting.

 

Thanks for your responses! I really appreciate what you guys do.

 

I completely agree with you that fascists are not all Nazis. That's why I think there can be some middle ground where we can have fascists on the station without the Nazi uniforms.

 

I understand that there are technical and artistic reasons that they look like Nazis. That's the image that first comes to mind when I think of a fascist soldier. However, I think there's a possibility of putting together a uniform that conveys the authoritarian feel of fascism without the classic Wermacht helmet and Nazi uniform.

 

Yeah, saying that the 3rd Reich was founded on racism is an oversimplification. But I think we can agree that racism was central to the regime (Mein Kampf, Holocaust). Minor quibble about the Soviet Union: Yes, it's true that more people were killed by the Soviet Union, but they never tried to wipe an entire race off the map. In fact, in the 50s, the Soviet Union created the Patrice Lumumba Friendship University, which gave students from developing countries all over the globe given full rides to study (and indoctrinate them on the glories of Soviet Communism and how the USSR is totally less racist than the US, of course).

 

Anyways, sorry for the tangent. Thank you so much for considering my feedback. You guys are seriously awesome!

 

[The Respected Man]

I just can't believe i missed out on killing Nazis and the goddamn commies both at the same time.

[Daniel Huren]

 

i hate saying the word triggered but as someone who can understand both sides of the argument and being unable to not stick my nose in things that dont involve me i feel i should state this

 

getting offended over nazis in a game is stupid in the events were admins have spawned fascists (which are not the same thing as nazis anyway) there not being introduced as ether the good guy or the bad guy ther just more flavor to the round and most of the time are murdered or they are part of a joke now i understand that to some people it may be offensive to them if players engage with the fascists but that is not the administrative fault cause the offended partys cant take a joke

 

also on a side note fascism and Nazism are two different things one is a political party the other is a political ideoligy now i dont agree with fascism but thats not the point the point is you seem to think that even mentioning the fact that fascism is a thing is offensive regardless of context which is just asking to get triggered do you get offended by CoD nazi zombies as well

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Daniel, do not contribute to an Administrator Complaint if you do not have anything valid to contribute.

 

Regardless, it seems like this is Resolved. Moving to the proper section.