On not being forced into jobs/roles you don't want

[Sampaiii]

 

Hi, I'm not entirely sure if this will actually be listened to or agreed with, but I'm trying anyway...

 

But, uh, I'm also going to give some back story to why I'm writing this?

So, yesterday in a round I was forcibly borged by an antag. This is understandable because he was only doing his antag job, but the problem is I am not familiar enough with being a rogue/antag borg or with being a borg in general, and I was basically stuck confused and nervous until some guy showed up and destroyed my body.

Now, I was playing an IPC at this time, so my brain was left alive on a table for some minutes, and what happened next is what actually caused me to want to write this.

Basically, I guess the AI was destroyed/killed for some reason, so they needed a new one, and a guy came to robotics looking for a brain. (I think he was CE but I might be wrong?) And my brain was just, there and totally helpless I guess. Even though my body was literally sitting in the corner of the room completely in one piece. My character protested and explained why they were a brain on a table and that they wanted their body back, and not to be an AI, but that didn't do anything to deterr the guy, and neither did me going into LOOC and saying "hey i have no idea how to do this job!" (But I guess that might be considered meta if they stopped because of that, I dunno...)

 

So, what I'm trying to say is just... That really kind of ruined my fun for that round. I was stuck doing a job I physically couldn't do for the last several minutes of the round, I was too overwhelmed and I had no idea how to radio people and I was accused of doing things I didn't even know how to do. On top of that, I didn't even get much of an explanation on how to be AI outside of "ghost around and click on things, and this is how you state your laws". I couldn't even really leave the round because I didn't know what would happen if I went SSD as the AI, or if I was even allowed to... All I did the entire round was look around the station while wishing someone would get fed up with how shit of an AI I was and find a new one again.

And, uh, basically I wish there was a way around getting forced into jobs you can't or don't want to do mid-game? Like, not being forced to be the AI namely, there might be other situations where being forced into a job mid-game could be a problem, but I can't really think of them right now.. (I can let the whole borg thing slide, but eh...)

 

But, maybe options in character setup to prevent this from happening, or a pop up window if someone tries to put you in an AI core or otherwise... So you can stop it from happening, and maybe if you click no then it gives an IC message of "this unit is incompatible" or something...?

I'm not entirely sure how this would work out for human characters, but yeah... It's kinda shit that it's possible to be forced into shit you can't do when you're just a brain; I've already seen people say "If the game is stressing you out so much, stop playing", but... How am I supposed to stop playing when I'm being forced into a big role like that? I'd rather that not happen instead of me or anyone having to play a role they can't do and ending up making the game less fun for everyone in the round by not doing well at it.

 

So, uh, I hope other people will see where I'm coming from, I'm not very good at making suggestions for these kinds of things...

 

[Dinarzad]

 

Ahoy there.

I'm gonna take this more piece by piece to try and keep things more on point, otherwise I tend to ramble.

 

Basically, I guess the AI was destroyed/killed for some reason, so they needed a new one, and a guy came to robotics looking for a brain. (I think he was CE but I might be wrong?) And my brain was just, there and totally helpless I guess. Even though my body was literally sitting in the corner of the room completely in one piece. My character protested and explained why they were a brain on a table and that they wanted their body back, and not to be an AI, but that didn't do anything to deterr the guy, and neither did me going into LOOC and saying "hey i have no idea how to do this job!" (But I guess that might be considered meta if they stopped because of that, I dunno...)

 

Here's the thing here. You told them you both didn't wanna be the AI in both IC and OOC and didn't know HOW to be the AI. At that point, ghosting out of your brain is understandable, and it's on them if they wanna ignore that. In the event you're even slightly unsure if it'd be some kind of breach in the rules, you can always put in an admin-help or mentor-help to clarify with the staff that "Hey, Iunno how to do this super important job is it a problem if I ghost or opt out?"

In fact that's pretty frequently done anyway, if you are a Head of Staff and have to log out, you're supposed to ping the admins an let them know.

 

So, what I'm trying to say is just... That really kind of ruined my fun for that round. I was stuck doing a job I physically couldn't do for the last several minutes of the round, I was too overwhelmed and I had no idea how to radio people and I was accused of doing things I didn't even know how to do. On top of that, I didn't even get much of an explanation on how to be AI outside of "ghost around and click on things, and this is how you state your laws". I couldn't even really leave the round because I didn't know what would happen if I went SSD as the AI, or if I was even allowed to... All I did the entire round was look around the station while wishing someone would get fed up with how shit of an AI I was and find a new one again.

 

The wiki is your best friend. Aside using the Wiki as a holy SS13 Bible, this was sort of an exceptional circumstance from the sounds of it. Mostly because unless you're an antagonist, you should not be debrained without either consent or if medical absolutely, dabsolutely cannot clone/revive your body (Very rarely). If you did not give consent and the roboticist was not an antagonist, he broke space law and SoP and could have (And should have) been fired post-haste.

You can always ghost out of your body, the downside to that is, if you ghost while your body is not dead, you cannot be rejoin the round. At least not through normal means. And, as before, if you are ever unsure, the admin help button is there for that very reason and mentors exist solely to be asked questions. It fules them. Questions give them sustenance and power beyond the ken of mortal man.

 

Most of the problem you're having here is not really ONE problem of "I got forced into a job I had no idea how to do." It was actually a compounded result of shitty Roboticists/CE illegally jamming someone into a new AI core without consent. I imagine if you had A-helped your situation, an admin would have todl you to go ahead and ghost and either pinged ghosts to ask for a replacement or to just let the crew solve the mess they made themselves of jamming na unwilling cyberbrain into an AI core.

 

[MickyD47]

Honestly I think this was fine. I mean IC they made the terrible choice of choosing a brain that just wasnt the suitable to be an AI. Not all brains are suitable for borging/AI and I think it is something people should stop and think about before they do it. I don't think there should be any mechanics that stop people from making others into AIs but the people doing it should understand the risk of turning people into AIs without asking them first.

[Sampaiii]

 

sorry I didn't get to this sooner, i didn't see any replies until i was going to bed @__@

 

Here's the thing here. You told them you both didn't wanna be the AI in both IC and OOC and didn't know HOW to be the AI. At that point, ghosting out of your brain is understandable, and it's on them if they wanna ignore that. In the event you're even slightly unsure if it'd be some kind of breach in the rules, you can always put in an admin-help or mentor-help to clarify with the staff that "Hey, Iunno how to do this super important job is it a problem if I ghost or opt out?"

In fact that's pretty frequently done anyway, if you are a Head of Staff and have to log out, you're supposed to ping the admins an let them know.

 

I guess that's true... I've never played a role like AI or any other head roles, and I've seen stuff about getting jobbanned if you go SSD as them, and even IC my character was told "We need an AI more than you need your body" which made me really nervous that I'd ruin the round for everyone if I ghosted out or closed the game... (Even if I ahelped it)

 

The wiki is your best friend. Aside using the Wiki as a holy SS13 Bible, this was sort of an exceptional circumstance from the sounds of it. Mostly because unless you're an antagonist, you should not be debrained without either consent or if medical absolutely, dabsolutely cannot clone/revive your body (Very rarely). If you did not give consent and the roboticist was not an antagonist, he broke space law and SoP and could have (And should have) been fired post-haste.

You can always ghost out of your body, the downside to that is, if you ghost while your body is not dead, you cannot be rejoin the round. At least not through normal means. And, as before, if you are ever unsure, the admin help button is there for that very reason and mentors exist solely to be asked questions. It fules them. Questions give them sustenance and power beyond the ken of mortal man.

 

I'm relatively new to the game, and already use the wiki a lot since I don't know shit about anything, but sometimes I still can't even find what I need... During the round someone needed me to help them over the engineering channel, but I physically couldn't because I didn't know the code for the channel so I couldn't talk to them, and I looked all over the wiki for the radio thing and couldn't find a list or anything anywhere.

Eh, the roboticist was an antag, so I'm not,, Incredibly worried about the borg thing outside of that I don't know enough about being a borg to be a good antag as one...

 

I guess I didn't really realise the whole AI thing was really, illegal, I guess... Because again I'm relatively new to the game. I guess I'll keep that in mind if something like this happens again... (Hopefully it won't)

 

[Dinarzad]

 

A Quickie reference for all the radio codes:

:C is command

:M is Medical

:U is Supply

:N is Science

is Security

:E is Engineering

:Z is Service

And :b is Binary speak, the non-radio way Cyborgs and the AI all talk to each other without meatbags able to hear.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Personally, I've never been forced to become an AI and have been forced to be a cyborg only following me being executed because of murdering people (they totally had it coming).

 

I don't think this issue is a large one. I doubt many people tend to have problems with being forced into Borgs or AIs on a regular basis.

 

If you really find yourself not enjoying a position in the game at all you can use LOOC to talk to the person responsible for putting you there and try to explain the situation. Obviously, just disconnecting is against our rules if it was an antagonist, but I do believe that most of our players would be nice enough to respect your position.

 

[necaladun]

 

This is such a niche thing I don't think I've ever seen it happen. I'd have no problem personally with you wiping core (which is basically suicide for AIs) after you have warned them you can't AI, and justify it with a WARNING FILES CORRUPTED or the like. An ahelp first goes a long way.

 

AI is easily the hardest, most complex job on the station - don't feel bad about not being able to do it well (yet)!

 

[Wheatley29]

How I feel this system could be improved would be by blocking head of job roles and AI roles from being auto selected, this will firstly stop people from having to play these jobs when they do not want to, or prevent new players from being forced to play a role they have no interest in learning.

[Sampaiii]

 

A Quickie reference for all the radio codes:

:C is command

:M is Medical

:U is Supply

:N is Science

is Security

:E is Engineering

:Z is Service

And :b is Binary speak, the non-radio way Cyborgs and the AI all talk to each other without meatbags able to hear.

 

Thank you. ;__; I'm totally going to keep this in my notes so I have it whenever i need it.

 

[Spacemanspark]

This is why we need to be able to remove the posibrain itself from an AI shell.

[Shadeykins]

 

Forced borging is murder. This is why roboticists are required to make contracts that people have to sign off on, and why it is a relevant option for executions.

 

The correct procedure here is to inform a pertinent member of command (IE: The Captain) about it, and get the CE permabrigged for murder. You shouldn't be confused as to this whole situation (it's understandably frustrating), as you should note that not only did the CE violate spacelaw, he really had no business building an AI in the first place.

 

edit: For future reference, if your laws permit it (IE: they're not an antag who enslaved you via AI laws) you could have a borg arrest them yourself.

 

[Sampaiii]

 

Forced borging is murder. This is why roboticists are required to make contracts that people have to sign off on, and why it is a relevant option for executions.

 

The correct procedure here is to inform a pertinent member of command (IE: The Captain) about it, and get the CE permabrigged for murder. You shouldn't be confused as to this whole situation (it's understandably frustrating), as you should note that not only did the CE violate spacelaw, he really had no business building an AI in the first place.

 

edit: For future reference, if your laws permit it (IE: they're not an antag who enslaved you via AI laws) you could have a borg arrest them yourself.

 

Right;; the roboticist who borged me was an antag so I couldn't really do anything about that

 

I'm not really confused on the whole borging thing, its not the first time I've been borged literally out of nowhere, I mostly had a problem with the AI thing

the Borg thing was,, mostly there because that was yet another job i'm not very familiar with so it made me panic a little since the (antag) roboticist was telling me to kill someone who was coming to robotics, but I don't know enough to just jump into action as a borg

 

The CE didn't borg me though, he only made me the AI despite me telling him I couldn't do it

 

[Shadeykins]

 

Forced borging is murder. This is why roboticists are required to make contracts that people have to sign off on, and why it is a relevant option for executions.

 

The correct procedure here is to inform a pertinent member of command (IE: The Captain) about it, and get the CE permabrigged for murder. You shouldn't be confused as to this whole situation (it's understandably frustrating), as you should note that not only did the CE violate spacelaw, he really had no business building an AI in the first place.

 

edit: For future reference, if your laws permit it (IE: they're not an antag who enslaved you via AI laws) you could have a borg arrest them yourself.

 

Right;; the roboticist who borged me was an antag so I couldn't really do anything about that

 

I'm not really confused on the whole borging thing, its not the first time I've been borged literally out of nowhere, I mostly had a problem with the AI thing

the Borg thing was,, mostly there because that was yet another job i'm not very familiar with so it made me panic a little since the (antag) roboticist was telling me to kill someone who was coming to robotics, but I don't know enough to just jump into action as a borg

 

The CE didn't borg me though, he only made me the AI despite me telling him I couldn't do it

 

Whether or not you're capable of doing the job is irrelevant at that point. If the CE was an antagonist, I presume he put you into an AI so he could steal you or enact some other plan that marginally required your services.

 

The comfort of one player is not worth ruining an entire round for an antag. For instance, I have a "steal an AI" objective and a "Murder Harry Partridge" objective. I decide to go after two birds with one stone, and kill Harry Partridge and debrain him. Upon trying to fit his brain into an AI core (which I could then intellicard) I'm met with a message that the player is ineligible, and all my work up until that point (stealing everything to make an AI core, and the intellicard) has been for no reason.