Make the NT Rep, The IAA's Boss

[GunDOS]

 

Heya guys, back with another stupid idea.

 

First some context, I was playing Nanotrasen Repersentitve today and I came up against a problem. I had four cases in the works but had only one body!

 

So it occurred to me, the Magistrate gets command of the IAA's at shift start annnnd I have never once seen the Magistrate use his/hers IAA's. Wouldn't it make more sense if the NT Rep got command over the IAA's instead? To investigate more cases at once?

 

Well, that's my silly idea. Hope it's not tooo silly.

 

[Shadeykins]

 

The IAA's are actually the primary ones responsible for investigating misconduct.

 

The NT Rep is more an advisory role, and is outside the law department.

 

Would take some adjusting to implement.

 

[GunDOS]

In my experience, it's the other way around. No one talks to the IAA's if there is an NT. investigateing in my opinion is under the umbrella of serving NT's interests.

[necaladun]

 

I think it'd work well. The NT rep can send IAA off to...do stuff. One problem is the alt titles of IAA - public defender, for instance, isn't really under their purview.

 

Anyway, I think it could be improved nicely. Maybe even move the NT rep/iaa/magis office to be next to each other.

 

[Shadeykins]

 

In my experience, it's the other way around. No one talks to the IAA's if there is an NT. investigateing in my opinion is under the umbrella of serving NT's interests.

 

The IAA's are supposed to be talking to people, and noting SoP violations.

 

The problem here is the IAA's wait for people to come to them, when they should be far more proactive.

 

[GunDOS]

 

The IAA's are supposed to be talking to people, and noting SoP violations.

 

The problem here is the IAA's wait for people to come to them, when they should be far more proactive.

 

They are supposed to be yes, but they don't. In the past month. I have only seen three decent IAA's, this is because I believe, they don't know what they should be doing. The NT rep is in a far better position to tell them that then the magistrate. In my opinion, but hell I'm certainly biased in the matter.

 

In the case of being proactive, I have seen that tryed also. It hardly works.

 

[Shadeykins]

 

The IAA's are supposed to be talking to people, and noting SoP violations.

 

The problem here is the IAA's wait for people to come to them, when they should be far more proactive.

 

They are supposed to be yes, but they don't. In the past month. I have only seen three decent IAA's, this is because I believe, they don't know what they should be doing. The NT rep is in a far better position to tell them that then the magistrate. In my opinion, but hell I'm certainly biased in the matter.

 

In the case of being proactive, I have seen that tryed also. It hardly works.

 

Generally as an IAA you should be noting blatant SoP violations, writing them up and then passing them off to the head of the requisite department for review/correction. If the head of the department fails to rectify the issue you then elevate it up to the Captain, who is is incapable of resolving the problem it *then* goes to the NT Rep.

 

The NT Rep isn't really meant to be complained to at all or handle complaints unless it's something adversely affecting Nanotrasen in and of itself, the fax machine is there for the express purpose of contacting Central Command and giving important status updates on the station. The NT Rep is designed to be an advisory position to make sure Command protocol is being followed, and that the heads of staff are actually doing what they're supposed to.

 

The NT Rep is geared toward holding command accountable despite what the present wiki page suggests (which is in desperate need of a rewrite and is almost two and a half years old), and the IAA's are intended to hold the rest of the station accountable and provide some oversight for security.

 

The reason why you never see IAA's really do this is that IAA is the first security job unlock and one of the first jobs in general that's available to newer players. Pretty much every entry level job on station suffers from a severe failure to do anything productive (Janitor, Chaplain, Botany, Chef, Bartender, Cargo Tech, etc, all tend to not do their jobs on a regular basis).

 

Part of the problem with IAA admittedly is the alternate titles, which makes the department more a joke than it really should be as well as it being an entry level job - which means even competent IAA's are often ignored because the position tends to get a bad rap.

 

[davidchan]

 

As the NT Rep if people are bringing information to you, you can always pass it on to the IAA or redirect the complaint to them directly. IAA should mostly be worried about how Security is treating their suspects and co-workers, is there any evidence or witnesses to a crime or is this just the first person security found?

 

Magistrate should be concerned with how Space Law and punishments are being applied. Primarily this comes down to making sure people aren't being executed or minor offenses and that people aren't being brigged excessively long times and vice versa, if the penalties a person built up would make for a permanent sentence then the Magistrate should inform Security about. Otherwise I fall back onto the Magistrate if I ever am unsure just how to sentence a person when it's clear they did a crime but I'm not 100% certain which category would apply.

 

The NT Rep is mostly just concerned with Command staff, ensuring the Heads are doing their job, not abusing their position and generally seeing that CC's orders are carried out while occasionally sending reports back to CC on the progress of the shift and helping CC/Admins know what the Command staff is actually aware of and what details they might be missing when making judgements.

 

[Habalabam]

 

Yes, the IAA has an oversight on department compliance to SoP. Contrary to popular belief, not just Security. The recipient of this is the department head and notifying the captain.

 

The NT Rep duties have no overlap with this.

 

[GunDOS]

 

As the NT Rep if people are bringing information to you, you can always pass it on to the IAA or redirect the complaint to them directly.

 

In the past, I have been burned by doing so. As in my experience, the IAA will either fail to respond or become horribly biased to one party or the another. Granted this also happens to the Nanotrasen Rep on occasion but certainly less often. Also directly quoting the IAA wiki "All departments fall under the purview of Internal Affairs. That is the point of Internal Affairs" This sentence can be found at the bottom of the page here. https://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Internal_Affairs

 

The NT Rep is mostly just concerned with Command staff,

Quoting the Nanotrasen Rep's wiki "but focused on keeping EVERYTHING that could damage the NT's economy or their profits aboard the NSS Cyberiad." This can be found here. https://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Nanotrasen_Representative

 

which is in desperate need of a rewrite and is almost two and a half years old

It isn't very fair to argue this as I have been working from this wiki since I first started playing NT purely a number of months ago. In my time of playing Nanotrasen Rep, there have been no changes to it. The Wiki seems perfectly in date to me.

 

TLDR: The problem is not how both roles should be played, it is how they are played.

 

[Fethas]

The IAA deals with legal compliance and complaints about legal shit. The have a boss..Thats the magistrate.

[Splgrk]

 

In my experience, it's the other way around. No one talks to the IAA's if there is an NT. investigateing in my opinion is under the umbrella of serving NT's interests.

 

I usually message everyone if there's a major complaint. Captain, HOP, HOS, Rep, IA and Magistrate, if there is one. Aurora is usually just the first to actually answer.

 

[FPK]

 

+1

 

The magistrate only works with Spacelaw and security. The NTR works with SOP and command. The IAA works SL, SOP, and the entire crew. I love it when I get calls from the NTR as an IAA, because magistrates can't exactly tell IAAs to go investigate departments outside of security. It only makes sense for the NTR to have agents of their own, seeing as how varied SOP is. Currently if an NTR tells me as an IAA to go investigate something, I'm not about to refuse.

 

If at least, make the magistrate and NTR have joint command over the IAAs.

 

[Jovaniph]

 

Get rid of either the Magistrate or the NTR...Its seriously like two wolves fighting for the same beef.

 

Edit: I mean that's one of the problems of Paradise Station so far. There are so many jobs without proper definitions such as Atmospheric Tech. They are not Engineers, but some people act as if they are. If you can't find a proper difference between two jobs then remove one job until a purpose for the other job can be made.

 

[Fethas]

 

no the magistrate/iaa both work the same areas. People commonly misunderstand the IAAs spot. the magistrare/iaas work with Legal SoP/Space Law, where as NT reps work with SoP, making sure depts are orderly, inspecting department and keeping up with NTs interests. IAAs and magistrates could care less if you leave your locker open and area in a Mess (unless its the security locker rooms cuase seriously you people are pigs).

 

NT rep is advisor really. If a crew member goes for them with a complaint and it ends up more on a legal sense then something that should threaten NTs interests and/or is a department being run wrong. (Medbay is suddenly a bar). They can and SHOULD pass the legal matters to the IAA/Security/Magistrate. If medbay has been turned into a bar..thats not a legal issue of space law being broken and the NT Rep should advise command to make them stop.

 

There ARE CLEAR DEFINITIONS..but people choose to blur them.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Speaking as someone who both wrote a Space Law Overhaul and spearheaded the project to create Standard Operating Procedure, these are the intended roles:

 

Magistrate: Ultimate authority on Space Law aboard the station. Can only be overruled by CC, unless they are clearly and evidently wrong. They may preside over Civil Disputes, as detailed on the wiki. They do not investigate cases of SOP being breached;

 

NanoTrasen Representative: Direct representative of the interests of NanoTrasen on the station. They serve as an advisor to, and coordinator of, members of Command. They may, and should, investigate on whether or not the station is running as expected, and are free to handle workplace complaints by bringing them to the attention of the relevant Command staff;

 

Internal Affairs Agent: Serve as "underlings" to the Magistrate, they have Security access for a reason. They can, and should, investigate workplace complaints, but should also concern themselves on whether or not Space Law is being correctly followed, and should take steps to instruct Security when it is not, and contact their superiors/CC when they refuse to correct themselves. They split their attention between Security matters and standard workplace grievances, and can serve as defense/prosecution attorneys.

 

These are, as indicated, the intended roles. If people are acting outside these roles, they are acting outside the intended bounds of their job. If people are not treating their roles as these ones, that is a different issue altogether.

 

Nonetheless, the IAA is far better adjusted working under the Magistrate than the NT Rep.

 

[Jovaniph]

 

NanoTrasen Representative: Direct representative of the interests of NanoTrasen on the station. They serve as an advisor to, and coordinator of, members of Command. They may, and should, investigate on whether or not the station is running as expected, and are free to handle workplace complaints by bringing them to the attention of the relevant Command staff;

 

Internal Affairs Agent: Serve as "underlings" to the Magistrate, they have Security access for a reason. They can, and should, investigate workplace complaints, but should also concern themselves on whether or not Space Law is being correctly followed, and should take steps to instruct Security when it is not, and contact their superiors/CC when they refuse to correct themselves. They split their attention between Security matters and standard workplace grievances, and can serve as defense/prosecution attorneys.

 

The underlining is the problem. Its the same but worded differently....Again, fighting for the same beef.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

There is no reason to only have ONE person in charge of workplace internal affairs. Having more individuals eases the load.

[Dinarzad]

 

I think the point being made is that they both have the same general purpose/job so the IAA would fit better under the Representative's control then the magistrate who focuses primarily on Legal issues.

 

It's like the CMO and a standard MD. They both arguably have the same job, the well-being and health of the Crew. But the MD does the grunt work, the hands and legs of medical, while the CMO is the brains that (Ideally) keeps it on task and running smoothly giving those doctors direction when needed.

Not so disimilar from the NT Rep being the "Command Advisor" and general guy to make sure command is taking shit seriously, while the IAA are the ones filing reports, obtaining evidence, etc.

 

Least that's what I got out of it.

Personally speaking, I think they'd do better under joint control. They DO handle some legal shit and (try to) keep Security honest so reporting to the magistrate makes sense, but they also handle non-security related issues and SOP Violations so reporting to the NT Rep -also- makes sense.

 

[Habalabam]

 

I may be outdated on this, but I certainly remember many times when IAA came around to do an "audit" on various departments.

 

I've been a QM and showing the IAA that the forms were filled out and that the cargo area reflected ongoing requests.

 

I've been a CMO and shown an IAA around who was making sure that things weren't a mess.

 

I've been HOS and shown the IAA that security records reflected the brigs.

 

... and an overall workplace hazard assessment.

 

To me, this is SOP stuff.

Yes, IAA has to double as public defender if the public defender is absent. But this is to me a "best fit", since being impartial is already a job requirement as well as already having a duty to support the workings of various departments, including security.

 

The IAA is concerned with the inner workings of departments. Every department viewed in isolation as to their level of competence, compliance etc.

The NTR is concerned with how all the efforts come together. The interaction between all parts of the station to serve NT interests.

 

[Mass595]

 

To me, this is SOP stuff.

Yes, IAA has to double as public defender if the public defender is absent. But this is to me a "best fit", since being impartial is already a job requirement as well as already having a duty to support the workings of various departments, including security.

 

The IAA is concerned with the inner workings of departments. Every department viewed in isolation as to their level of competence, compliance etc.

The NTR is concerned with how all the efforts come together. The interaction between all parts of the station to serve NT interests.

 

I agree with this, I feel like you've identified the major problem here: people assuming that the IAA is only responsible for dealing with security. I actually had assumed that myself. Perhaps we need to make it more obvious that the IAA is responsible for checking all departments; rather than just checking security and dispensing legal justice.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

I feel plenty of IAA know they're involved in other departments as well, it's on their wiki page after all.

The problem is, when it comes to inspecting those departments, they're rather limited. Unless someone LETS you inside, you usually can't tell the fuck is going on unless someone lodges a complaint.

 

Security, they can walk into the brig and be there to be oversight during prisoner processing/sentencing.

For something like Medical, they can't exactly just walk inside for an inspection to make sure shit is being done right/by the book.

Not that they necessarily SHOULD have all department access, but that is the primary inhibitor on them dealing with other department's breach of proceadures and having to wait for people to come to them, rather then them being more proactive outside of Sec.

 

[Shadeykins]

 

I may be outdated on this, but I certainly remember many times when IAA came around to do an "audit" on various departments.

 

I've been a QM and showing the IAA that the forms were filled out and that the cargo area reflected ongoing requests.

 

I've been a CMO and shown an IAA around who was making sure that things weren't a mess.

 

I've been HOS and shown the IAA that security records reflected the brigs.

 

... and an overall workplace hazard assessment.

 

To me, this is SOP stuff.

Yes, IAA has to double as public defender if the public defender is absent. But this is to me a "best fit", since being impartial is already a job requirement as well as already having a duty to support the workings of various departments, including security.

 

The IAA is concerned with the inner workings of departments. Every department viewed in isolation as to their level of competence, compliance etc.

The NTR is concerned with how all the efforts come together. The interaction between all parts of the station to serve NT interests.

 

My favourite hobby as IAA is demanding the robotics workers show me their borging contracts, and then sicking the RD or Captain on them when they close the shutters on me. I also like to check on Cargo, the HoP (if they've kept paperwork), and the medical department. Usually I split the duties between the two IAA's, one of us keeps an eye on security and the other goes around doing inspection for violations of SoP.

 

I'll occasionally offer to work in concert with the NT Rep (You share your information, I'll share mine), but it's always a collaborative role and never a "yes sir, no sir" type of deal.

 

You will be genuinely surprised how quickly a well written report with a couple of pictures and a stamp will get you.

 

[Habalabam]

 

I feel plenty of IAA know they're involved in other departments as well, it's on their wiki page after all.

The problem is, when it comes to inspecting those departments, they're rather limited. Unless someone LETS you inside, you usually can't tell the fuck is going on unless someone lodges a complaint.

 

Security, they can walk into the brig and be there to be oversight during prisoner processing/sentencing.

For something like Medical, they can't exactly just walk inside for an inspection to make sure shit is being done right/by the book.

Not that they necessarily SHOULD have all department access, but that is the primary inhibitor on them dealing with other department's breach of proceadures and having to wait for people to come to them, rather then them being more proactive outside of Sec.

 

Last time I was involved in this discussion, this boiled down to an agreement that HOP should be able to issue time limited passes, which also would create an explicit "audit" context of the IAA visit. And HOP may demand a report each time, which would raise the bar of the IAA doing such a visit.

Of course, this doesn't mean that similar discussions haven't concluded differently in the meantime.

 

[alexpkeaton]

 

NT Rep and IAA are two of my go-to roles when I don't roll Cap. It has never made sense to me that IAA is not under the Rep's purview.

 

Think of it this way: the Rep is the IAA for Command. He is an arbiter of SoP and can contact CC if things get out of hand. IAA should report to the Rep and the Rep reports to CC. All are independent. Heck, give IAA's a CC decal for their ID's. It doesn't cost anything and would make IAA less associated with security. It is a natural progression that IAA report to the Rep as crew level SoP would fall to them and, should something serious arise, the Rep could be brought in, and if the Rep needs help, they can approach the Captain or CC. It's a very clean and logical progression, and there's no chance of a breakdown in priorities as can happen with an overworked magistrate who won't give a damn over Medical SoP or an issue in Cargo when processing is packed and security is slow. An IAA has no one who will stand up to them, and it has led to active defiance of IA by department heads who know full well that IA does not have any muscle to back up their requests and will fold like a bad poker hand if challenged. The NT Rep can give their full attention to managing IA and actually gives the Rep some extra muscle to enforce SoP when department heads go full comdom.

 

The magistrate is way too busy dealing with greytide to manage IA.

 

Give the Rep the Magistrate's office. The Magistrate can take the Clown's corner office next to the courtroom, and the Clown can get the Rep's former office.