Laser Guns with removable magazines.

[shazbot194]

Hello, in my newest PR I am trying to add a new style of weapon. These are laser guns with removable magazines. Currently, they work just like laser guns, some can switch from lethal to non lethal, you recharge the power packs, and overall are a more versatile weapon system. Currently here are all the features and some bugs that can be "features"

• Shoots just like Energy weapons.
• Can change between different kinds of beams/bolts.
• Magazines fit in sec belts, red space suits, military belts, and anything that can hold ballistic weapon ammo.
• Can be reloaded just like any magazine fed ballistic weapon, except the saw.
• Magazines can be examined to see how many shots are left. 
• Magazines can be charged at weapon chargers.
• Can be loaded with a +1 due to it being an offshoot of ballistic weapons.
• Can have indicator lights.

I am hoping on getting some more feedback or criticism and maybe improving it even more. 

The current sprites for the weapons.

[Jovaniph]

Honestly, It'll be a nice change of pace of seeing these in game instead of having to run to the nearest charger to...charge your weapon. If this gets added in, then it'll be pretty cool to see security officer reloading there weapons in a middle of combat, etc.

[Fox McCloud]

Neat in concept, but officers field reloading is a big problem, from a balance perspective, in SS13. This tends to encourage spammable use of range weapons (which are already dominant) and gives officers way too much "stand and fight" against potential antags, particularly more openly hostile ones like Nuke ops and wizard. Officers having to go back is a good thing, from a design perspective, as opposed to carrying one gun and a ton of magazines.

 

These are also inherently immune to EMP, as well (again, not a good thing for generalized station useage).

[Jovaniph]

I don't understand how this is a balance issue. The weapon has its pro and cons and one being that it requires magazines to reload. You'll have to obtain more from some source the same way you have to recharge your weapon from a source. I don't see an issue of officers 'standing and fighting'. I actually see that as a good thing. I don't see how Nuke Ops would be any different and Wizard rounds only last for 30 minutes so I fail to see an argument there. As for the EMP issue, I can see how that is a problem.

[Rurik]

First off, lovely sprites.

Secondly, its not quite clear what this aims to accomplish. Is this completely replacing laser guns/energy guns? If so, how many accompanying ammo mags would spawn in the armory? If not, would these guns also spawn in the armory with energy/laser guns or be admin usable only? Would extra ammo mags and the guns itself be able to be made at RnD or ordered from cargo?

As for the issue of field reloading, only giving one mag to accompany one gun in the armory (assuming this even adds them to the armory or replaces energy/laser guns) should fix that problem. But if they are made available to science, then that would be a problem again since RnD would be researched in no time and be printing out extra mags for security.

Immunity to EMP's is completely unneeded in my opinion. It comes off as a unwarranted buff to security weapons.

All that being said, if this is a admin only type of weapon for events and the such, then the two points I mentioned above are null. 

[ZN23X]

I work sec mostly and agree that reload able energy guns would be a bit OP and I'll explain. My favorite most effective weapon to have is the pistol from the gamma armory. It fits in my bag like a laser rifle and I can constantly reload it on the fly. It's unbelievably powerful compared to my lasers because of that. Giving lasers magazines would make them as (or more) effective than this pistol. There is a reason that pistol is in the gamma armory.

Needing to recharge guns doesn't hurt vs nuke ops, it's more based on how skilled the nuke ops are vs the people fighting them on the station.

A good wizard isn't easy to deal with regardless of your weapons.

If you make energy guns have magazines you may as well remove the Blob from the game cuz they'll never win again. Blob rounds have a "tug of war" feel to them and energy guns make a huge dent in the blob but need to be used sparingly due to the method they are currently reloaded. It's why emitters are used...they are essentially infinite ammo energy guns.

Adding what @Rurik pointed out. You'd also have to add alot of resources to the game to make this happen....and yes the sprites are awesome...so I feel bad shooting it down

Edited March 29, 2017 by ZN23X

[SomeGuy9283]

Gamma ERT item, maybe?

[shazbot194]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I would like to say first that the EMP immunity is from me not having the time to code it in the EMP effect yet, hence why its not part of the feature list. I was going to have some time on Friday to add that in.

The current selection of guns on display are meant to be event/admin spawn or be used for other forces such as Sol Gov troops. I know I didn't mention this and that is my fault. After reading all of your feedback, I was thinking of adding in a security rifle that would be balanced in a similar way to the autorifles but with its own benefits and limits. It would have a slower rate of fire to compensate for having more potential ammo as well as being only available from order by cargo. Or, I was thinking of maybe make it have half the damage (or less) of a normal e-gun with one and a half the magazine size but the same fire-rate to have a similar effect, which would have a side effect of longer charge times for empty magazines. In addition, any power cells that would be ordered would be uncharged so you have to charge them before use. I am also planning to have this done on Friday. Could I also get your thoughts on this.

For the concern of blobs, having two-three energy guns would be more effective. While yes, you could get more power from the first burst way faster. They both charge at the same rate. That being said, if you wait you can have bigger bursts, but you could have a similar effect with having more laser guns. Not to mention if it is the security gun from above, it already would have a lower DPS.

And I could see this style of gun being used in Gamma ERTs.

[necaladun]

I like them as Sol Gov or perhaps other eventy/adminny stuff, that sounds great. They really have a military feel to them.

But the balance issues with them are a big problem for regular use. The new-york-reload style for sec has been factored into a lot of other balance and design choices, and if it were to change we'd need to re-evaluate a lot of things.

 

The sprites are fantastic, btw.

[shazbot194]

One possible idea I had was if security was to get one, it would be the spam option. This would mean would be easier to balance for spam. Features would be it having more ammo but less damage per shot but the same fire rate or slower of the current laser guns but same total damage per magazine. This would also increase the charge time. Meaning it needed to recharge less but when they do go to charge, it would take a lot longer to charge. I also whipped up a possible sprite, but I feel like it needs a lot of work.

Edited March 30, 2017 by shazbot194
Grammar

[Shadeykins]

If I recall correctly, the idea of lasers with magazines got shot down because it's a drastic powerup to lasers.

If they're "special weapons" though that aren't readily available and the magazines can't be used on standard e-guns, I personally see no issue with their implementation!

[Machofish]

20 hours ago, shazbot194 said:

.

I like how sleek this one looks in particular.

As SomeGuy mentioned, I think loadable energy weapons would be extremely suitable for the ERT - there's more of an expectation for the ERT to spend lengthy amounts time 'in the field' since they're almost always used as a crutch for incompetent/dead departments. Furthermore, making reloadable energy rifles an ERT-only weapon would limit the amount of extra ammo that can be accumulated at once, so that one couldn't feasibly be walking around with any more than 2 or 3 extra magazines. Particularly I think this would be a good way to 'smooth out' the gradient of firepower between the ERT levels as well, since I feel that going straight from the laughably inadequate supplies of the Amber ERTs to the army-slaying power of Red ERTs leaves a missing link that ought to be addressed.

More specifically, I'd love to see these used to replace the lasercannons that code Red Security ERTs get, as the lasercannons are bulky, easily lost and offer way too much stopping power considering that each code Red Security ERT is issued one.

I don't want to hijack this thread with my own suggestions - it's just that I really see potential for these to fill a niche. I propose that the ERT's arsenal get restructured around the reloadable energy rifles in the following manner:

- Amber ERT: Security ERTs in specific receive one reloadable energy rifle, with a single extra magazine. The ERT Medic, Engineer and Commander are left as they are with their eguns/laserguns and other relevant gear.

- Red ERTs: All Red ERTs get one reloadable energy rifle as standard-issue; Sec ERTs in Code Red would be given three extra magazines, the ERT Commander gets two spare magazines, and Medical/Engineering ERTs are not given spare magazines. Hopefully this will encourage the 'support' ERTs to work together with their Security ERT buddies if they want to confront threats such as terrorspiders, blob, and xenos.

- Gamma ERTs - Ditch the ridiculous deathsquad-grade pulse weapons (particularly the disposable, non-rechargeable pulse pistol); all ERT members get a reloadable energy rifle with two extra magazines; Security Gamma ERTs get teargas grenades and the accelerator lasercannon. To place Gamma sec in a place that's equally as versatile as their old pulse carbines without being as hilariously deadly, make it so that the ERT armour can fit accelerator lasercannons in the suit storage slot. Currently, the only places I see Gamma ERTs deployed are for admin events where the station is not realistically equipped to handle whatever the admins are throwing into the round - the problem with pulse weapons is that they really do not offer any chance of survival to their target, and are much more suited to the Deathsquad.

Alternatively, get rid of the lasercannon as being redundant and give Gamma Sec ERTs one of those Enforcer .45 handguns with a spare mag or two so they've got an option for fighting laser-immune targets such as eshields, dual e-swords etc. I'm not sure what sort of performance the Enforcer .45 offers, so it could be any sidearm to fill the role of a 'light, mid-level ballistic weapon to serve as a panic button.'

 

Anyways, that's my take on it. As others have mentioned, these might give a little too much dakka if they were made available to regular sec (from my own experience, a WT-550 with a couple extra magazines can go a very long way already), but I think they're perfect for giving ERTs more flexible/sustainable firepower without directly boosting their lethality.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Machofish

[BrandonSacawv]

Just thought I'd throw my two cents in. I like the unique sprites and feature. Perhaps to balance it out, make it so that the magazines are susceptible to being EMP'd. If EMP'd, they loose all their ammo or something like that. I feel like that SHOULD handle any balance issues.

[shazbot194]

Hey everyone, I managed to get EMPs to drain ammo from the guns in a similar way to energy guns. I also finished making the prototype for a security rifle.

The way it currently is coded, it has 30 shots and weaker lasers that fire just as fast as a normal energy gun. It does 15 damage on lethal and 30 stamina on stun, as in takes 10 to hard crit someone on lethal, 13 to kill, and 4 to stun. It also has a different magazine that spawns without charge so if they would be bought from cargo, they need to charge first. Since it also has more ammo, it takes longer to charge. Please tell me you thoughts on how this would play out in balance.

[Fruerlund]

The sprites are very awesome but I still feel that they are too bright and should be colored darker to fit our other energy guns. They would make an awesome addition to Sol Gov troops. 

[shazbot194]

This PR isn't dead quite yet. To try and get some more support, I will be taking requests for anything new to add. New features, new sprites, just tell me. When I get time I will be adding more to this Pull. I will also be re-shading some of my sprites to have them fit in with what guns they are meant to be with.

[shazbot194]

Small update, the one conflict with the new recharger code had been fixed and should work 100% yet again.