Doukan Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Love-To-Hug said: None of the suggestions I've seen so far in this thread actually stop the act of stuncuffing, and would just guarantee that all heads have a pair of cuffs at the ready instead of relying on stunlock. (Except for, of course, the initial suggestion to remove telebatons entirely.) The way I see it, there's only three viable options if you want to get rid of a telebaton user's ability to detain people: Option 1: Make it take longer to cuff people. Option 2: Make the stun so short you can't cuff people in the stun frame. Option 3: Remove telebatons. Stuncuffing as a whole is a product of instatsun, something a lot of people have been complaining and requesting the reworking of for a very long time and also something that's going to be around forever because the decision has already been made or something. It's something everybody who has a stunning item does anyway and will always do regardless of how effective the stun itself is because it's just the better option in a combat system where stun trumps all. So long as heads of staff continue to get away with things they shouldn't (full powers SE 4noraison/half the amroury's worth in the backpack 4noarison/memchems in their hypospray just in case etc) it's futile to change things against such behaviour, next best thing is to reduce it's effectiveness by cutting the crap IMO (ie: the goddamn BSbatons). Of course this would probably mean a lot more heads would start seeking out additional "protection" but hey at least it wouldn't be theirs at roundstart. Edited March 31, 2017 by Doukan Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love-To-Hug Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 If you're convinced Heads will just continue to do things they feel they can get away with, would you not be concerned that a telebaton nerf significant enough to make them unable to detain people would make them instead turn to getting stunbatons or stunprods, which are far more effective and may simply end up making it worse for antags? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Love-To-Hug said: If you're convinced Heads will just continue to do things they feel they can get away with, would you not be concerned that a telebaton nerf significant enough to make them unable to detain people would make them instead turn to getting stunbatons or stunprods, which are far more effective and may simply end up making it worse for antags? I'm of the opinion that command players would do such things anyway yes, however I'd feel a lot less salty if they didn't have access to such might at roundstart. Then at least it'd be easier to identity and expunge bad behaviour, explaining away why you're tazing half of medbya for insubordination is a lot harder when you're not supposed to have it in the first place, as opposed to baton'ing them which is almost expected sometimes. I've also noticed as a general rule of thumb people don't get in trouble for abusing items they have access to so much, I'm pretty sure people would be a lot less eager to extrajudicially detain their minions if they had to break space law to do so effectively seeing as stun prods are often considered borderline contraband now and "illegal weapons" in the least. Edited March 31, 2017 by Doukan Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love-To-Hug Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Considering that the alternatives are far more effective, I'm not sure if it's a wise move to try and make telebatons so weak that it feels like they need one of the alternatives if they have any hope of forcefully demoting somebody. As has been discussed in the demotion terminal PR, Security cannot be expected to help you with demotions in this day and age. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Love-To-Hug said: Considering that the alternatives are far more effective, I'm not sure if it's a wise move to try and make telebatons so weak that it feels like they need one of the alternatives if they have any hope of forcefully demoting somebody. As has been discussed in the demotion terminal PR, Security cannot be expected to help you with demotions in this day and age. This isn't something a head of staff should be doing anyway, unless they're the HoS/back-up captain of course and certainly not on their own at least. Often I've noticed if someone is deserving of demotion the rest of the department is typically pretty enthusiastic about getting rid of them, rounding up a posse isn't always too out of the question if sec can't/won't fulfil their function. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothangel Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Security have nothing to do with demotions until the point law is broken. If they refuse to return their stuff or refuse to leave, law is broken there. Telebatons are also incredibly powerful against any humanoid antag. Nuke Ops basically die to them without adrenals as an example. They're long overdue a nerf. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love-To-Hug Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Just now, Doukan said: This isn't something a head of staff should be doing anyway, unless they're the HoS/back-up captain of course and certainly not on their own at least. Often I've noticed if someone is deserving of demotion the rest of the department is typically pretty enthusiastic about getting rid of them, rounding up a posse isn't always too out of the question if sec can't/won't fulfil their function. A lot has changed in the past year. Rounds have become too chaotic to rely on Security for forcefully demoting, they're usually off fighting antagonists. 'Rounding up a posse' is just begging for trouble and a very long-winded explanation to the admins about how you weren't trying to get someone lynched. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Love-To-Hug said: A lot has changed in the past year. Rounds have become too chaotic to rely on Security for forcefully demoting, they're usually off fighting antagonists. 'Rounding up a posse' is just begging for trouble and a very long-winded explanation to the admins about how you weren't trying to get someone lynched. As Sothangel said if someone's not actively making a nuisance of themselves it's an internal matter, ought to be dealt with internally. There's usually much more important things to be worried about regardless. That said though I'm not opposed to giving heads disablers or soemthing similar in their lockers at roundstart, only to be used in an emergency of course. 5 minutes ago, Sothangel said: Security have nothing to do with demotions until the point law is broken. If they refuse to return their stuff or refuse to leave, law is broken there. Telebatons are also incredibly powerful against any humanoid antag. Nuke Ops basically die to them without adrenals as an example. They're long overdue a nerf. This is exactly what has happened to me on more than one occasion except in my case I was on syndie donk pockets, telebaton should not beat chainsaws eswords and machine guns. Edited March 31, 2017 by Doukan Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinatacolada Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 let it floooow https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/7008 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothangel Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, pinatacolada said: let it floooow https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/7008 A God amongst men Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Maybe this one can stop flooding the board now lol Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, pinatacolada said: let it floooow https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/7008 Praise be. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9861-purge-telebatons-from-the-codebase/page/2/#findComment-82467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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