Purpose2 Posted April 1, 2017 Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) The idea: Add two roles one each to Engineering and Medical called "Senior Engineer" and "Senior Consultant". EDIT: And from popular demand, "Senior Officer" The details: Functionally identical to a regular Doctor, Engineer or Officer. Heavily encouraged to take on interns from the Civilian pool A type of IC mentor, available to help members of the department Available to step in if the heads of staff are otherwise incapacitated In no way command of anything, and neither are they the defacto Acting, but are encouraged to use them Currently Karma locked Could implement the playtime limit instead / as well - if @tzo's Department tracker gets merged. FAQ: Why Karma locked? This ensures that this role only goes to those with experience in the department and the understanding and willingness to train, coach and take on Junior members into the department, 'interns'. They are for all intents and purposes just a regular member of the department, someone paying the karma for what is effectively and 'alt title' - they are dedicated members of that department. Will this detract from the number of slots in the department? Nope, quite the opposite. These roles would be 'added on top' - and on top of that, they are encouraged to get the HoP to assign Civilians/Assistants for them to manage and train. Engineering Intern/Trainee titles allows the crew to know as well that they aren't necessarily to expect 'supermen', or super competence. Is this not going to encourage snobbery? These roles are ones that is designed to help and aid others - even hiring newbies from the Civ pool - if the situation allows it. As such they will be held to a higher standard. Shouldn't mentors get these roles for free? No. Lets not blur the lines between OOC mentoring and IC mentoring. --------------- cc @Sothangel @PurpleGenie @Rumiluntti Thoughts? Edited April 5, 2017 by Purpose2 3 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothangel Posted April 1, 2017 Posted April 1, 2017 I'd be all for this. Would take some workload off of the respective heads, too. No real downsides to it that I can see. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyet Posted April 1, 2017 Posted April 1, 2017 I like this idea. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik Posted April 2, 2017 Posted April 2, 2017 59 minutes ago, tzo said: I like this idea. Ya beat me to it Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted April 2, 2017 Posted April 2, 2017 Sounds like a great idea to me! Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvadableMoxie Posted April 2, 2017 Posted April 2, 2017 I actually had a very similar idea to this for medical called "Attending Physician" I did a mock wiki write up on it if you are interested: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ViY5hb8pHpST6e9CwVKrb2_rE9MXEU8UVxPaAVv0cq0/edit?usp=sharing I don't mean to hijack your thread, so this is just a framework or some ideas to use. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love-To-Hug Posted April 2, 2017 Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) Wouldn't it make more sense to tie this to the new departmental playtime system (pending approval), rather than karma? I'm not exactly sure how you'd format the karma shop to communicate that 'Senior Engineer' is just a title and not any different from a normal engineer other than signalling you're experienced. Furthermore, it'd open up the possibility of getting Senior titles for jobs you don't even play that much. Plus, if highly experienced players want to instead save their karma for something like plasmaman, it means one less 'designated teacher' new players will be able to turn to. Aside from that, I like the idea. I just feel like they should just be automatically unlocked with high playtime in respective departments rather than tied to the karma system. Edited April 2, 2017 by Love-To-Hug Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothangel Posted April 2, 2017 Posted April 2, 2017 A whitelist system would be perfect for this, but I'm not entirely sure the administrative staff would want to go down that route. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpose2 Posted April 2, 2017 Author Posted April 2, 2017 Whitelist idea is going to get rejected. Playtime tracking is hated by Fox, but may still get merged. I still stick by thinking Karma may be the best route for this. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love-To-Hug Posted April 2, 2017 Posted April 2, 2017 I'd be against a whitelist too. There's too much favoritism already. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted April 2, 2017 Posted April 2, 2017 They'd play a similar role as the Warden does to the HOS. For the time being you can always go to the HOP and request such a job until it gets implemented. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted April 2, 2017 Posted April 2, 2017 9 hours ago, Purpose2 said: Whitelist idea is going to get rejected. Playtime tracking is hated by Fox, but may still get merged. I still stick by thinking Karma may be the best route for this. This will also give people something else to spend karma on, which is nice. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatbananacyclops Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Why not, nobility, also make it based on if the player is new to the server or not, so we can know how skileld they are, or the amount of time and objectives completed as the job Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinatacolada Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) I like this, but I'm not sure how good karma is to gate this, there is no correlation between experience on a particular job and your karma. Every odd full moon there's that one kind of magistrate, you know the kind. Then again there's people who have played medical for years and can't deal with internal bleedings, so pick your poison I guess Edited April 3, 2017 by pinatacolada Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpose2 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, pinatacolada said: I like this, but I'm not sure how good karma is to gate this, there is no correlation between experience on a particular job and your karma. Every odd full moon there's that one kind of magistrate, you know the kind. Then again there's people who have played medical for years and can't deal with internal bleedings, so pick your poison I guess I know what you're saying, but ultimately spending karma on something that does practically nothing too different from an existing role is a bit different from a role that is different to any existing role. An IAA with ultimate power? Never happened before. How else would you gate this role? Do we use this as a 'use case' for when Kyep's Department tracking PR goes in? How many hours would you say is required for this role? This is my problem with it, because at the moment, you only need to play 10 hours to play CE or CMO. So why should 'senior' role be higher. Frankly I'd want to put it on more like 50 hours.... Having it karma gated at least requires someone to make a conscious effort, and spend their precious points to get. Edited April 3, 2017 by Purpose2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinatacolada Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Well I think this is a prime candidate for the tracking thing, and honestly, for medical, at the bare minimum, I'd place it at around 100, that's 50 2 hour games, which averages on nearly two weeks of playing exclusively medical for 2 games a day. By that time you should have some understanding of the fundamentals at the very least. Maybe I'd set it even higher, a month's worth of game, maybe two. If it truly is supposed to represent experience on the job it's got to have something backing it up, instead of some rando who's played doctor for 3 days and gets a title saying he's the new Doctor House. Setting it high could also make it like a long term goal thing, so players could have something to pride themselves off of, in return of their dedication? I guess? As to reasoning why the CMO gets a shorter time to play it, well I have absolutely 0 reasons for you, partly because I think they're too short to begin with also other jobs probably would have different time restrictions to them, security probably could get away with a shorter one, while engineering might be a bit higher fuk science u nerds Edited April 3, 2017 by pinatacolada Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
James5734 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Perhaps a sec senior as well to monitor new officers and prevent new officers from embracing shitsec. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Purpose2 said: Having it karma gated at least requires someone to make a conscious effort, and spend their precious points to get. RIP to the 5 karma anyone has spent on Barber ??? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpose2 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, James5734 said: Perhaps a sec senior as well to monitor new officers and prevent new officers from embracing shitsec. I'm not against that, but it might be harder to get approval on that one. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, James5734 said: Perhaps a sec senior as well to monitor new officers and prevent new officers from embracing shitsec. Sorta already the Warden's job...but as I've advocated in the past, the Warden could use some damned help. A good HOS and Warden teach good habits. Bad ones lead to bad ones. I actually specifically work sec alot to try and instill sec with good habits, even when I'm not HOS or Warden. Edited April 3, 2017 by ZN23X Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
James5734 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 2 hours ago, ZN23X said: Sorta already the Warden's job...but as I've advocated in the past, the Warden could use some damned help. A good HOS and Warden teach good habits. Bad ones lead to bad ones. I actually specifically work sec alot to try and instill sec with good habits, even when I'm not HOS or Warden. My problem with the warden already acting as a bit of a sec senior is that the warden can't do much about coaching officers outside of security whereas my idea of a sec senior would almost always be hanging around new officers. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZN23X Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, James5734 said: My problem with the warden already acting as a bit of a sec senior is that the warden can't do much about coaching officers outside of security whereas my idea of a sec senior would almost always be hanging around new officers. Ahhh...I gotcha. I wasn't saying this job shouldn't exist because the Warden already does this, I was saying it should exist because the Warden could use the help lol If the senior officer helps officers understand how to do their job properly it would still take stress off the Warden. I even sort of already play the role of senior officer when I'm pod pilot because I'm experienced in security, if someone has a question and they aren't getting a response from the HOS or Warden cuz they are dead or busy, I'll help out. On that note, if you are experienced at whatever role you are playing, nothing is stopping you at the beginning of the round from radioing "Hey everyone, if you are new to this department or have any questions, I can help you out." beats the opposite side of people who shame others for not knowing how to do a job they've never done. Worked with a new chemist the other day who admitted he was new over comms and instead of doctors helping direct the chemist, they instead just shamed and complained about them. How's that help? Edited April 3, 2017 by ZN23X Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinatacolada Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 just had the idea of mentors getting the opportunity to use these as alt-titles cross my mind Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpose2 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 45 minutes ago, pinatacolada said: just had the idea of mentors getting the opportunity to use these as alt-titles cross my mind I don't like the idea of mixing the OOC mentor system and this as a 'sort-of-but-not-really' IC mentor system. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpose2 Posted April 5, 2017 Author Posted April 5, 2017 And we're up on Github: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/7059 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/9900-senior-roles/#findComment-82859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts