Spacemanspark admin complaint

[Sotrennel]

Admin Key: Spacemanspark

Your Discord name (if applicable): /

Complaint:

I was a traitor operating in science on 4/10/2017. I printed an AI board. After a scientist says it on the science channel, I immediately put it in the destructive analyzer and the scientist is aware of this. The AI tells this to security, and a certain Peppy-bot semi-validhunts me, telling the AI to set me to arrest and locate me (1). I intercepted this on my headset. I went to the science outpost, and the AI appears. It gives me 5 minutes to return the board. I explain to it the board was destroyed, and a scientist saw me do it (it was on the science channel, so AI knew it), and the AI lets me go. This Peppy-bot keeps chasing me however, ignoring everyone who tells him that I already destroyed it. When he finally arrests me, he even kept asking where I hid the board (2).

[Security] (Intercepted) N.E.C.R.O MK2 states, "Adan Burns just printed himself an AI upload board"

[Security] (Intercepted) Peppy-Bot shouts, "Copy! Set him for arrest and give me the location!"

[Security] (Intercepted) Michael Monroe asks, "Shall I take Adan in for questioning or would we rather wait a bit?"

[Security] (Intercepted) N.E.C.R.O MK2 states, "Wait for a while"

[Security] (Intercepted) Peppy-Bot says, "HELL NO."

Here is a quote, note, this is for printing an AI board : [Common] Peppy-Bot yells, "Get back here CRMINAL!!"

As you can see in these quotes, and in the chat log, the other officers were going to bring me in for questioning. Peppy however, decided an aggressive stance was needed. He didn't even ask me to come to security or to explain, he just went straight for the arrest, for printing an AI computer board.

After I get arrested, Peppy finds the headset on me, and puts me in perma. That's the end.

 

Now, I needed to tell that backstory for the admin complaint. The admin I had was Spacemanspark, who handled this situation. Before I begin, let me say that I called him incompetent, since in my opinion, he didn't resolve the situation at all.

Let me start with (1)

This was the admin's response:

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: Alright, from a brief discussion with the other player in question, it seems they had reasonable suspicion to believe you might be doing something odd. Additionally, they're a security officer, it's somewhat their job to look into that. I don't believe they're validhunting.

The admin thought and still thinks that a sec officer can order an arrest, going in with disablers blazing, for printing an AI board. Instead of asking me to come to security, or explain it, this admin allows security to shoot people under suspicion. I don't see how printing an AI board and putting it in the analyzer is reasonable suspicion. Admins like him make security players validhunt, ignoring space law.

When telling the admin that others, even the AI saw it, he responded with:

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: Others being the AI and one other scientist that could be potentially lying?

When asking why he was so certain about Peppy having suspicion on me, he responded with:

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: There is some information I can't ultimately tell you due to it being IC information.

Which I find strange, since I was half-afk in the round before I printed the board.

After that he gives, in my opinion, a bad reason to defend himself:

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: But more or less, the AI being in your favor after you printing one does raise a slight red flag, if you think about it.

He completely ignores the fact that the board was destroyed, which was announced to the RD.

After persisting that multiple people saw it, he responded with the following:

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: You might have, yes, destroyed it, but there were only one or two people in your favor on that, while there were others that were more reliable saying otherwise.

I call him out on this, since I don't know how others are more reliable. For some reason this admin thinks that, for example, a captain or HoS sitting in his office knows more about which things were destroyed in the destructive analyzer, than the scientist and the research director IN THE SCIENCE DEPARTMENT. I still have to grasp how he came to this response.

After a discussion repeating the previous, he answers with this.

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: Validhunting really only applies to non-sec officer staff.

Which is a good way to make bad security, if you follow this ethical stance. (See the following quotes for further explanation)

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: it might not be contraband, but it's possible to upload laws to the AI with it, which is what made them suspicious.

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: Not really, if they have reason to believe you might subvert the AI. That generally doesn't end so well for the crew.

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: At this point, I believe you were just in the wrong area at the wrong time, which led to you getting caught with the headset. You might not have subverted the AI, but they had reason to believe you were going to, or had already done so.

Now, in the validhunter rule, it says clearly: Evidence of Antagonist activity is required before you take steps to treat anyone as an Antagonist.

Peppy treated me as an antagonist (see criminal), for printing an AI computer board. The admin accepts this, which, in my opinion, contradicts with the rules. Then he blames me for getting caught by the headset, which was found through his inaction to act as an admin. Since I was a traitor, I didn't want a sec officer going disablers blasting on me, because he would find certain items, yet this admin blames me for it.

After that he responds with this:

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: Considering what I said before about higher ups telling the officers otherwise, they probably ignored the scientist over those who are above them.

Which contradicts with everything that has happened so far. The AI told them to wait a bit, right when I printed the board, and the other officers were going to ask me to come to sec. There was only one officer keen on doing everything to catch me, BEFORE the HoS even told him anything.

 

This the reason why I made this admin complaint. I believe poor judgement, lack of motivation and a bit of incompetence caused Spacemanspark to ruin my antagonist round.

Apparently having a bloodthirsty sec officer ignoring space law is part of the game, as to quote Spacemanspark: "I'm sorry you wound up in this situation, but that's how things go sometimes. You just had poor luck."

There's a difference between poor luck and situations which shouldn't happen.

tl;dr

Read the text

Edited April 10, 2017 by Sotrennel

[Spacemanspark]

Firstly, you've made this complaint while the round in question is still happening. That's kind of a nono.

Secondly, you're also missing some bits and pieces of the conversation.

For example...

Edited April 10, 2017 by Spacemanspark

[Sotrennel]

Just now, Spacemanspark said:

Firstly, you've made this complaint while the round in question is still happening. That's kind of a nono.

Secondly, you're also missing some bits and pieces of the conversation.

For example...

Nothing in admin template that says I can't make the complaint while the round is happening.

I touched that on" Before I begin, let me say that I called him incompetent, since in my opinion, he didn't resolve the situation at all."

Calling you a bad admin equals incompetent.

[TullyBBurnalot]

Do not post in Administrator Complaints unless you have anything of substance related to the case to add.

This is currently under investigation.

[Sotrennel]

 

If I think an admin is handling the situation completely wrong, I can be mad at them.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Sotrennel

[ZomgPonies]

23 minutes ago, Sotrennel said:

Which contradicts with everything that has happened so far. The AI told them to wait a bit, right when I printed the board, and the other officers were going to ask me to come to sec. There was only one officer keen on doing everything to catch me, BEFORE the HoS even told him anything.

Just to make things clear. The AI does not order security around. It gives suggestions and recommendations, but it is NOT in the Chain of Command. This part of your argument is invalid.

[Sotrennel]

1 minute ago, ZomgPonies said:

Just to make things clear. The AI does not order security around. It gives suggestions and recommendations, but it is NOT in the Chain of Command. This part of your argument is invalid.

The part of the AI may be invalid, but the security part still stands.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Sotrennel

[TullyBBurnalot]

Alright. After speaking with the people involved, I will be taking this point for point.

Firstly, I would like to point out something that, apparently, eluded you when you made this complaint; namely, the fact that other people may not necessarily be aware of the same IC information as you. Your entire complaint rests on this unstated assumption that because you knew you were right, then others should act in accordance with it, despite this being, at best, incredibly unreasonable to ask of someone who you're not sharing information with.

Regardless, let's take this point for point, shall we?

Quote

Peppy however, decided an aggressive stance was needed. He didn't even ask me to come to security or to explain, he just went straight for the arrest, for printing an AI computer board.

You were not arrested merely for printing an AI Computer Board. You were highly suspected of foul play for printing an AI Computer Board and then heading off into the Science Outpost, without Security being made aware that it was destroyed.

This is the crux of the issue. Information does not simply flow once it's placed out there. Miscommunication happens all the time.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

After I get arrested, Peppy finds the headset on me, and puts me in perma. That's the end.

Which they had ample justification for, considering the Encryption Key's status as S-type Contraband.

 

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

Now, I needed to tell that backstory for the admin complaint. The admin I had was Spacemanspark, who handled this situation. Before I begin, let me say that I called him incompetent, since in my opinion, he didn't resolve the situation at all.

Emphasis mine. You did not call Spacemanspark incompetent. You may have heavily implied it, but what you actually did was directly tell them "I want a real admin to handle this".

This is not calling someone incompetent. This is outright stating that you do not recognize the legitimacy of their authority, and that, thusly, you don't need/want to listen to them.

As it stands, Spacemanspark is a real admin. As you were quickly reminded by the other Admins online at the time. This ridiculous request, alone, would've been enough for plenty of other Administrators to issue a Permanent Ban on the spot. You are quite lucky with the arrangement of Admins that were around, considering you essentially got a slap on the wrist for what was, in all respects, a massively disrespectful insult.

For the sake of clarity, however, I shall proceed.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

The admin thought and still thinks that a sec officer can order an arrest, going in with disablers blazing, for printing an AI board.

First off, the Security Officer did not "order" an arrest for printing an AI Board. They moved to detain someone they had plenty reasonable IC suspicion to believe was tampering with the AI.

Secondly, the Admin is correct in that belief. Officers can put out a call for an arrest if crimes are committed, as that is, in fact, part of their job.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

Instead of asking me to come to security, or explain it, this admin allows security to shoot people under suspicion

Refer to my above point. You keep painting yourself as a completely innocent victim of circumstance while apparently ignoring the fact that, in order for that to apply, the other side of the equation needs to be convinced what they are doing is the correct thing.

In addition, yes, there are plenty of situations where Security is perfectly justified in detaining someone without asking them to cooperate first. In this situation, you have someone who potentially subverted the AI running into the Science Outpost. The Officer in question has every reason to be on edge.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

I don't see how printing an AI board and putting it in the analyzer is reasonable suspicion

Again, see the above points.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

Admins like him make security players validhunt, ignoring space law.

This is a severe accusation, and one that is completely and utterly unfounded.

First off, once again, refer to the above points for why Security had ample IC reason to be suspicious of you.

Secondly, note that Security deliberately pursuing individuals they believe to be acting against the integrity/best wishes of the station and its crew is their job. Space Law was not ignore here.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

When asking why he was so certain about Peppy having suspicion on me, he responded with:

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: There is some information I can't ultimately tell you due to it being IC information.

Which I find strange, since I was half-afk in the round before I printed the board.

Spacemanspark has a reason to obscure this information from you; we do not typically give players IC information unless they are no longer eligible to participate in the round (such as being ghosted), to reduce the risk of any potential metagaming.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

After that he gives, in my opinion, a bad reason to defend himself:

Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: But more or less, the AI being in your favor after you printing one does raise a slight red flag, if you think about it.

He completely ignores the fact that the board was destroyed, which was announced to the RD.

Firstly, that's not a bad reason. it's, in fact, a perfectly valid conclusion.

Security is given information that leads to them thinking the AI was subverted ---> Security starts chasing down suspect ---> AI is arguing in favor of the suspect

Eyebrows being raised at this point would be a natural response, and it would be highly irresponsible of Security to take the AI's word at face value considering what was suspected to have happened.

Additionally, as I pointed out before, miscommunication happens. Did you perhaps consider that the RD did not pass on the report?

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

I call him out on this, since I don't know how others are more reliable. For some reason this admin thinks that, for example, a captain or HoS sitting in his office knows more about which things were destroyed in the destructive analyzer, than the scientist and the research director IN THE SCIENCE DEPARTMENT. I still have to grasp how he came to this response.

Yes, traditionally, a Security Officer will take the HoS' and Captain's word at a higher value than that of a Scientist working in Science. Not to mention, as I already noted, it is entirely possible the message stopped at the RD. And even then Security would not be at fault for double-checking, considering the sheer amount of damage a subverted AI can do.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

Now, in the validhunter rule, it says clearly: Evidence of Antagonist activity is required before you take steps to treat anyone as an Antagonist.

I made sure to add this bit to the Server Rules when I was going through their Revision:

Quote

Attempting to Rules-Lawyer an Administrator is never a good idea, and likely to result in harsher punishment

How were you, exactly, treated like an Antagonist?

Security had reason to believe you absconded to the Science Outpost with an AI Board. Security, therefore, decided to go and detain you. I still fail to see any wrongdoing on their end. Somehow framing this as some sort of "bloodthirsty" (your words) validhunting is disingenuous and, may I say, profoundly misguided.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

Peppy treated me as an antagonist (see criminal)

These two things are not the same.

All Antagonists are criminals, but not all criminals are Antagonists.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

for printing an AI computer board

See above. Again.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

The admin accepts this, which, in my opinion, contradicts with the rules

It doesn't.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

Then he blames me for getting caught by the headset

No he doesn't. He simply notes that you were being permabrigged over the headset, which is exactly what happened.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

und through his inaction to act as an admin

This reads like you think the Admins are somehow obligated to make sure that everything goes just the way you want them to go. Continuously painting this as a bad Admin stealing the round away from you while completely ignoring the overall context does not really speak in your favor.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

Since I was a traitor, I didn't want a sec officer going disablers blasting on me, because he would find certain items, yet this admin blames me for it.

Again, they did not blame you. They were pointing out events that happened.

At this point, you're simply fabricating lies to justify your own emotional reactions.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

Which contradicts with everything that has happened so far. The AI told them to wait a bit, right when I printed the board, and the other officers were going to ask me to come to sec. There was only one officer keen on doing everything to catch me, BEFORE the HoS even told him anything.

Higher-ups, in this situation, refers to the HoS/Captain (once again, see above.

Secondly, there are more ways to talk to people besides using the radio. You are assuming information that you do not have access to.

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

This the reason why I made this admin complaint. I believe poor judgement, lack of motivation and a bit of incompetence caused Spacemanspark to ruin my antagonist round.

 

1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:

There's a difference between poor luck and situations which shouldn't happen.

Emphasis mine.

This is the crux of the matter. There was no wrongdoing on Spacemanspark's part. There was no wrongdoing on Security's part, considering the information they had available to them.

This entire Complaint reads like one prolonged "My round was ruined and the Admin is to blame".

They aren't. Sometimes, bad luck happens. Your entire response to this situation was, frankly, toxic and highly disrespectful. Rather than attempting to understand all sides to this debacle, you immediately assumed you were right, and everything you did afterwards was based on that assumption. You made no effort to understand Spacemanspark's decision, and instead opted to paint this as bloodthirst on the part of a player, and incompetence on the part of an Admin when, in fact, all that happened was sheer dumb luck.

To summarize: this complaint is without merit. Locking and moving to Resolved.

Edited April 10, 2017 by TullyBBurnalot